AMD demonstrates Ryzen 9 5900X prototype with 3D V-Cache stack chiplet design

[g67575]

Most customers don't use more than 6-8 core CPUs. 8 core (excluding small cores) Alder Lake CPUs should be ahead of the 5800X.

I think AMD may have the advantage with 16 core CPUs though, both this year and in 2022.

 

[jigger]

AMD have much better hardware to work with. I have no clue what kind of configuration Zen 5 will be. 16+ core clusters and expended use of 3D stacking would seem likely.

 

[Grim5]

My expectation for a Zen 5, Ryzen 9 7950x

16 Big cores on 5nm
8 to 16 Little cores on 7nm
2nd Gen Stacked 3D cache - up to 384mb L3
RDNA3 iGPU

170w tdp

 

[Twinz]

I expect Alder Lake to beat current Zen 3 in gaming and I hope this kicks off some back-and-forth for years to come.

 

[The Old School Gamer]

The most relevant question is how close can Alderlake get to current Ryzen 5000 and under what scenario.

Intel are playing catch up.

It the costs involved as well switching to Alder Lake when you factor in the cost of a new motherboard as well.
Next to these VCACHE added Zen 3's which would be a drop in upgrade for many of us after a BIOS update.

It's certainly a good reason to hold out until Q1 imho before making a decision.

 

[Twinz]

It the costs involved as well switching to Alder Lake when you factor in the cost of a new motherboard as well.
Next to these VCACHE added Zen 3's which would be a drop in upgrade for many of us after a BIOS update.

It's certainly a good reason to hold out until Q1 imho before making a decision.

Alderlake would have to be a LOT better than Zen 3 for me to spend money on changing platforms. I'm also not in a hurry to switch to Windows 11. If it *needs* 11 to perform, then I'll pass until 11 gets sorted and stays sorted for a while.

 

[=XDC=FluphyBunny]

Isn’t there still a question mark over alder lakes gaming performance given the selective “leaks”. Also the price of say 5800x and motherboard vs AL equivalent.

 

[tommoT.Striker]

I think those on older platforms on Intel will be tempted to switch to AL, if you're already on Ryzen these 3D chips will soothe the upgrade itch.
And people are right doesn't appear there will be a big gap between AL and Zen 3 in gaming, surely the leaks/promo would have indicated that already. Very curious to see what 3D does for games though, probably AMD will be best for gaming on average.

 

[Perfect_Chaos]

I think those on older platforms on Intel will be tempted to switch to AL, if you're already on Ryzen these 3D chips will soothe the upgrade itch.
And people are right doesn't appear there will be a big gap between AL and Zen 3 in gaming, surely the leaks/promo would have indicated that already. Very curious to see what 3D does for games though, probably AMD will be best for gaming on average.

Anyone on Zen 2/3 would likely just wait until AM5 at this point, i won't bother with Zen 3D, rather save the money towards a newer platform mid/late next year at least, and DDR5 will likely be pretty good by then.

 

[Dup]

I was going to switch to a 5900X recently but with new stuff so close I thought I would wait for the 3D chips.

Currently on a 6700k, mainly game but also do 3D rendering plus want to be somewhat futureproof as I keep hardware for longer now I'm older and have other priorities. Not sure if I want to go AL or 3D, DDR5 early adopter won't matter as I'll have to upgrade MOBO & RAM anyway but cost may be prohibitive so a 12 core Zen 3D might be the way forward to bridge my two hobbies and wallet concerns whilst still having longevity.

 

[g67575]

People are discussing Zen 5 already lol. Let them release Zen 4 first in late 2022. I think that will already be quite a large performance jump.

 

[jigger]

Anyone on Zen 2/3 would likely just wait until AM5 at this point, i won't bother with Zen 3D, rather save the money towards a newer platform mid/late next year at least, and DDR5 will likely be pretty good by then.

Will be a substantial up lift for most Ryzen users. 2700X to a Ryzen 5600X-3D will be a pretty large jump in performance and a drop in upgrade for most. Same from a 5600X to a 5900X-3D

 

[g67575]

@Twinz - Yeah, I think people with new Zen 3 boards should definitely stick to that platform. The difference betwen Zen3 + 3D cache and Alder Lake will be small and 12/16 large cores should be faster than Alder Lake's 8 cores + 8 low power cores.

If AMD can improve IPC / clock rate a bit, it could end up matching Alder Lake ST performance.

Because of the fairly low spec memory controller on Alder Lake, DDR5 probably won't offer any performance benefit (at least in games, but perhaps it might in other areas). Quad channel RAM support would be much better.

I think AMD deserves more credit for still supporting the AM4 platform and offering competing products to Intel's entirely new LGA 1700 platform. It would've been nice to have more info about this on company roadmaps though.

If I was buying this year, I'd get a cheap 6/8 core alder lake CPU, because the LGA1700 platform will probably support new CPUs in 2022/2023.

 

[humbug]

I expect Alder Lake to beat current Zen 3 in gaming and I hope this kicks off some back-and-forth for years to come.

That remains to be seen, and beating it is subjective, +2% is beating it to some, Intel have a lot of catching up to do, it would need to be quite a leap over Rocket Lake to beat Zen 3.

I don't think people with Zen 3 are going to be looking at it enviously, those with Zen 1 / 2 will be smart enough to wait if its their time to upgrade, there will be quite a few budget hunters looking at the 12400F but choke at the boards and ram, and a few with very deep pockets who just want the latest and greatest.

Intel think AMD are done, even said that, Intel are deluded, people trust AMD to deliver and all they have to do is make a bit of noise about what's coming in the next couple of months and the majority of people will just hold off because either way you look at it ALD is going to be a very expensive thing and its not going to be good enough to be worth its outlay, Intel's problem is AMD, and yes that's a good thing

I think competition is good, but i hate Intel's arrogance and they are not providing competition when their platform is going to be so expensive.

 

[jigger]

@Twinz - Yeah, I think people with new Zen 3 boards should definitely stick to that platform. The difference between Zen3 + 3D cache and Alder Lake will be small and 12/16 large cores should be faster.

Will depend on the workload. It is worth keeping in mind these Ryzen chips have almost 200mb of cache and Ryzen seems to have a really good cache hit rate. That is a lot of potential performance on tap.

Zen3D has 6.5 times the cache of Alderlake and Alderlake has a convoluted arrangements of CPU cores that will require some hand holding to operate.

 

[g67575]

Yup, but I bet the small cores can be disabled if they cause performance issues - the 8 large cores should be plenty for most ppl.

 

[jigger]

That remains to be seen, and beating it is subjective, +2% is beating it to some, Intel have a lot of catching up to do, it would need to be quite a leap over Rocket Lake to beat Zen 3.

I don't think people with Zen 3 are going to be looking at it enviously, those with Zen 1 / 2 will be smart enough to wait if its their time to upgrade, there will be quite a few budget hunters looking at the 12400F but choke at the boards and ram, and a few with very deep pockets who just want the latest and greatest.

Intel think AMD are done, even said that, Intel are deluded, people trust AMD to deliver and all they have to do is make a bit of noise about what's coming in the next couple of months and the majority of people will just hold off because either way you look at it ALD is going to be a very expensive thing and its not going to be good enough to be worth its outlay, Intel's problem is AMD, and yes that's a good thing

I think competition is good, but i hate Intel's arrogance and they are not providing competition when their platform is going to be so expensive.

Intel have a point when they say AMD are done, but that is only because AMD probably can’t keep doubling up on Intel in terms of core count and exponentially increasing their lead over Intel. In the short term (next five years) Intel will struggle.

Nova Lake will be the litmus test. Intel should have it’s fabrication finally fixed and the ability to plan a proper road map from that point. Although Intel did announce it has abandoned 3D stacking tech, but I’m really sceptical if that is true.

 

[jigger]

Yup, but I bet the small cores can be disabled if they cause performance issues - the 8 large cores should be plenty for most ppl.

Then you get Rocket lake. Just a really expensive version.

 

[g67575]

@jigger - I think that simplifies things way too much. single core performance always matters more than core count.

Also, the 12700K /non K will have 8 large cores and 4 small. I doubt it will make much difference if these 4 cores are on or off.

I think if they could be set to background tasks only, that would work quite well.

 

[jigger]

@jigger - I think that simplifies things way too much. single core performance always matters more than core count.

Then Intel need a 2.5x performance increase at 50% the power use. Can never happen with Intel’s ring bus design on Intel 10nm.