Soldato
Imagine if everyone had this setup. Would have a massive dent in the economy.
needs more imagination than the charge per mile model…
When are you going fully electric?
- Thread starter Ricochet J
- Start date
-
- Tags
- electric
needs more imagination than the charge per mile model…
Soldato
Imagine if everyone had this setup. Would have a massive dent in the economy.
Yeah, well I have young uns to think about, and would rather put my money where my mouth is and promote change to sustainability, even if we have to sacrifice something first world elsewhere. It's easy being a hypocrite, we've all done it, but I'll be dead long before the crap really hits the fan but the grandkids won't.
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
No, but it means you can purchase them if you wish to. The existence of this wish to purchase things then creates a market which manufacturers serve...
Haha, wasn't having a go.
If the Government is really serious about going "green" then every average family should have this ideal...but it costs money; got to keep the average folk churning away on the hamster wheel.
I don't get the fascination of embracing a situation where only a privileged few can own something. Some basics like owning your own transport shouldn't be a luxury - even if some people would rather an on demand service model.
Soldato
Yeah I know, was just saying that everyone (almost) have choices to make about what they spend their money on, some go on many foreign holidays, other buy high-end cars that depreciate like a brick (normally), some spend it on designer clothes, you get the picture. People make choices, and my life isn't so important that I'd rather spend a few K here and there on myself, rather on what I hope might make a miniscule difference in the grand scheme of things.
You are comparing a 6 year old used vehicle with a brand new one and it’s a wonder why the brand new one costs more.
No one compares a 6 year old ICE and a brand new one and expect the new one to provide a lower cost of ownership.
Put an equivalent car/spec BMW/Merc/Audi/Volvo against the Model 3 and the numbers are very different, particularly if you are a company car driver but even just outright ownership.
No, I was trying to make the point that people like me, who would like switch to EV's, find it frustrating that they can't access the same kind of deals to make it affordable as others can.
My company doesn't offer any kind of salary sacrifice schemes, I'm certainly not entitled to a company car, so that leaves an EV out of my reach for the foreseeable, all the while Greta screams at me like I'm a child murderer for driving a diesel and my boss gets a subsidised car he could have afforded regardless, with a free charger at work on top.
Yes, I know it's my own fault for being a pauper.
I totally understand the need to drive early adoption, but it's still frustrating.
Because deep down these people are awful authoritarians, who believe they will somehow be in the privileged inner party come the revolution, rather than toiling away in salt mine with the rest of us plebs.
It's a grey, utterly joyless world they want us to live in. Everyone living in a pod, eating bugs, catching the bus the salt mine, collect your Victory gin ration and be grateful to big brother.
The same view of people on benefits too. Well done you planet heroI get it, you're anti EV and pro fossil driven, that's fine. I thank you for your kindness in subsiding my super cheap motoring. Now be a good lad and keep that petrol tank topped up lad. I'm very welcome
Yeh and I’ll get a new iPhone every year too but drive an EV. Honestly people try to pretend they save the planet buying an EV. Get real
I get the feeling it is an utterly grey, joyless world these people live in and they want everyone else to suffer the same. It is another thing there seems to be a strange fascination with - like those on the more extreme sides of left wing politics where instead of striving to see a better balance to the [in]equality they'd rather drag everyone down into the mire.
Ok homeless man. You drive a Hyundai. Well doneYeah I know, was just saying that everyone (almost) have choices to make about what they spend their money on, some go on many foreign holidays, other buy high-end cars that depreciate like a brick (normally), some spend it on designer clothes, you get the picture. People make choices, and my life isn't so important that I'd rather spend a few K here and there on myself, rather on what I hope might make a miniscule difference in the grand scheme of things.
Oil is pretty sustainably and carbon neutral if you extend the timescale long enough …
It’s the usual thing. People moaning about stuff. And not really doing anything about it apart from buying a single item then preaching on the internet about it, rather than doing something that would /could make a difference.
(likely sat in a Aircon office doing some pointless IT job about managing data like it doesn’t use any electricity)
oh I forgot they argue with peopLe who can make a difference with very little substance and then go on about how much money they save via
Tax/duty benefits. Have I got it right ? Oh sorry I forgot. We should all buy a joyless kona like it’s some journey of saving the planet right ?
Last edited:
The most carbon neutral thing to do is just die. Anything else is a compromise
Oh and moan about new car buyer purchase decisions but the newest car they ever bought is a 5 yr old diesel
Soldato
Yes ideally agree
There are other issues though, do you just do something that uses ANPR type stuff on main roads, forcing those budget conscious to sideroads.
Do you have so many of these ANPR thingies that you cant basically go anywhere without them recording the usage so that you can be charged. Every junction maybe?
If not ANPR but say a chip type thing, how do you avoid all the hacks that will be a significant market if the charge is significant.
If using ANPR how to stop plate cloning etc
Basically anything that relies on recording will be liable to being hacked if its significant.
As I said, its well recognised that collecting tax at the time of supply is far easier to ensure high levels of compliance and far harder to consistently cheat than retrospective actions
This is my point, it would be uneconomic to attempt to do enough for the winter months, and certainly for the forseeable future it would be no bad thing to pull less from the grid as its not going to be fully green for a long time in reality.
If a significant portion (I dont think they ever would but..) decided to avoid the duty or premium then you can always switch the tax collection at that point.
If you really wanted to avoid excessive self generated electricity being non premium units if used for car power then you could easily apply the same rules as for people making their own biodiesel, the same tax is due even if you do it yourself. You are liable to report the usage and pay the duty.
Anyone not doing so would be in trouble if caught.
Bit frustrating as during the summer months you could charge it with excess - but you'd have to spend around 200K on batteries to store it for the winter months and those batteries would probably last about 5 years tops before needing to be replaced with that use. And that assumes fairly average use of the vehicle.
Well, ideally captured by GPS live and stored directly by the DVLA or whomever then a secondary check available on the vehicle somewhere to compare usage; some kind of chip in the key perhaps to monitor "ignition", movement etc
Soldato
Which is the risk, what if someone clones your chip and drives all over pretending to be you, then swaps back for a bit before their MOT
GPS only receives (its just triangulation), so you would need to store all the data and upload it. Plenty of opportunity to change that for the right fee once cracked.
Interestingly it would seem the UK was 280 billion miles driven in 2020. Assuming we were trying to recover the £21billion (it was reduced with the lower mileage driven) that would mean (on average) you would need to charge 21/280 = £0.075 (7.5 pence) per mile surcharge on a per mile basis if every mile was transitioned to EV and charged for.
Assuming 10k annual and 3 miles per KWH, that would be 3333KHW annual usage. You would be looking to recover £10000*0.075 = £750 over those 3333 units, or £750/3333 = £0.225 per KWH surcharge, (which checks vs 3x£0.075).
Funny as I had in my mind a sort of 20pence per unit surcharge level as a sort of ballpark.
ANPR and cameras to capture and heavily prosecute may prevent the majority of it.
Easiest way would be to have "home" chargers record independently for vehicle-only charging by enforcing a particular pin structure or something but the Government have already let the boat sail on that one.