Heat pumps

Soldato
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With the push for everyone to get rid of their gas boilers, and news that the government are going to offer a 5k grant for people to fit them, what are peoples views on them? I admit to knowing very little about them, or how they work, or even how efficient they are. We had a combi boiler fitted a couple of years ago 'for efficiency' and tbh I think I preferred our old immersion tank set up, but then I am old :p
https://news.sky.com/story/boiler-u...r-5-000-grant-to-replace-gas-boilers-12437657
 
Soldato
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Expensive, even with a £5k grant, it will still be cheaper to fit a like for like boiler replacement.

You’ll also need somewhere to put a water cylinder and all your existing radiators will need to be increased in size by a fair amount and the associated pipe work adjustments.

Running costs are in the same ball park.
 
Soldato
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From everything I've read they dont work very well in cold weather, or the efficiency decreases.

Which is a thing because when it's cold..


And then you have to top it up, using an immersion heater which are very expensive and energy consuming.

Yes you are not directly burning fossil fuels, but they are otherwise inferior in my opinion from what I've read.
 
Soldato
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They work fine on cold weather, Sweden uses a huge number of heat pumps. Less efficient, yes but still very efficient. The main issue is U.K. housing stock is rubbish and poorly insulated.

In terms of insulation, you should be looking to do everything you reasonably can to insulate regardless of getting a heat pump or not. Heat loss is the same regardless of heat pump or boiler and the heat loss will cost you a fortune either way.

You do need an immersion but you only need to boost the hot water tank every now and then for legionella, otherwise, 50c hot water is more than fine for daily use. In terms of rads, normal boiler flow temps are 60-65c and returns below, heat pumps are lower but the temp can be designed into the system. If you have underfloor heating you might want that to be as low as 30c. For rads you want it to be more, perhaps 40-45c and this you need 50% bigger rads but that’s assuming they are the minimum size for the 65c flow temps. It can be as high as 50c but the high the temp the less efficient it is.

Ground source is far better than air but even more expensive. Both are more expensive than gas and you also have to consider what happens when the heat pump brakes or expires outside of warranty and needs to be replaced. They’ll be no grant for that.
 
Don
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Spalding, Lincolnshire
I have an ASHP, it replaced a coal back boiler and I've had no issues regardless of outside temperature.

Compared to coal, our running costs are lower, and instead of having heat spikes (where a fire would be too hot), or being too cold (due to being too lazy to light a fire if it isn't very cold), we have comfortable heating all the time, and timed hot water (which can still be topped up via immersion)
 
Soldato
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How many of Swedish ones are ground source ?
I've never measured temperature of water you use for hand washing up, shaving at basin, but I would have thought 50C was marginal.
e: boilers set at 58C

current electricity prices, as they said on r4 this morning are inhibitory, but boris is green lighing the new nuke (before cop ?) ,
and pm last night , in user interview the guy had spent £15k for his heat pump upgrade versus neighbours £5k for gas.
 
I haz 4090!
Don
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Manchester
I saw this last night and it did spike my interest a little. My boiler is only a couple of years old though, I think I'll sit on the fence for a while and see how it all goes.
 
Soldato
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50c will cause burns after a few mins so you’ll not be putting you hand in it for and length of time. My hot water is 60c and I can’t even put my hand in it for more than 2-3 seconds, it’s far too hot.
 
Soldato
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50C yes you do need fire-proof hands initially doing the washing up, but with 50C into a ceramic basin that knocks it down , and by the time you've shaved,
its's not exactly like the barbers steam flannel.
 
Soldato
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Expensive, even with a £5k grant, it will still be cheaper to fit a like for like boiler replacement.

You’ll also need somewhere to put a water cylinder and all your existing radiators will need to be increased in size by a fair amount and the associated pipe work adjustments.

Running costs are in the same ball park.

It's certainly going to make for a complex installation in a lot of properties. We never had an airing cupboard that would normally store an immersion tank built in our house. Increase in radiator sizes you could probably get away with a 25% increase, but any bigger and it would just take up an insane amount of wall room.

I've also read that homes have to be extremely well insulated so more cost involved, unless it's all done with grants.

We're good on the well insulated part, the problem with a modern-ish build is that the boilers fitted are all combi, so there's no immersion tank. Which means sticking it out in the garden as it's unlikely the loft will have been constructed for storing a heavy weight such as an immersion tank.

Average heat pump system temperature is 40°C which is roughly half that of a gas/oil system, so the radiators need to have twice the area to give of the same heating effect.

I'd imagine the intention is to also have things like underfloor heating fitted.

Hmm so it looks like the future is going to be very expensive.

I guess if you anticipate energy bills continuing to increase for the next couple of decades, then it'll just "be the norm".
 
Soldato
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I'm surprised the gov aren't prioritising insulation in older builds first, that seems like much more of a quick win than this fandangled heat pump scheme

They should also be encouraging those with old boilers to move to upgrade to modern gas boiler. This new heat pump message will just make them sit on the fence for longer.
 
Soldato
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5 Mar 2010
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12,345
I'm surprised the gov aren't prioritising insulation in older builds first, that seems like much more of a quick win than this fandangled heat pump scheme

They should also be encouraging those with old boilers to move to upgrade to modern gas boiler. This new heat pump message will just make them sit on the fence for longer.

There's been insulation schemes for older houses for at least the last decade. I would bet that those who wanted them done are done, so it's just a case of those who can't be bothered - it's pretty much flogging a dead horse now.

Same really for old boilers, i've seen discount schemes where companies are offering vouchers towards / discounts for those who are upgrading their boilers.
 
Caporegime
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Lake District
Heat pumps aren't the answer, gov are after a quick fix and to look like they're doing something.

Home storage batteries for all would make far more sense to relieve strain on the grid.
 
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