Incompetence/negligence

[Fatboy123]

You send an item worth £100 to an address 50 miles away with a courier. The courier leaves the item in an unsafe place ie doorstep where its stolen or misdelivers it.

Courier says its total liability is the cost of postage say £5.50 as per T&C's.

Under the circumstances is this correct?

 

[fastwunz]

no. its was knicked because they basically left it out to be knicked.

unless the terms specifically state that it litterally doesnt matter where its left - they are only liable for postage but that would surely be rediculous?

 

[Richie]

Courier says its total liability is the cost of postage say £5.50 as per T&C's.

Under the circumstances is this correct?

What do the T&C say?

 

[Martynt74]

I guess it depends if the T&C's state that the item will be left in a safe place and you've accepted them.

I think this is why Parcel2Go now offer an add-on for "guaranteed delivery". Yes, it's a bit crap that it's just another money making scheme it seems but i'm not sure if there's anything you can do if the T&C's cover them. It's not unlawful or going against other legislation.

 

[Fatboy123]

Would the T&Cs have any bearing in this case? Leaving a parcel on a doorstep in full view of a busy road/pavement is negligent.

Slightly different scenario but same sort of thing.... if you had poor service in a restaurant and the food wasn't very good you'd still have to pay for it. You just wouldn't go back. But what if the restaurant gave you food poisoning?

 

[kindai]

Would the T&Cs have any bearing in this case?

Did you authorize safe place delivery? If Yes then fault is yours.

Otherwise fault is theirs.

However if the T+Cs say they will leave at safe place unless you specify otherwise, fault is yours.

 

[Fatboy123]

Did you authorize safe place delivery? If Yes then fault is yours.

Otherwise fault is theirs.

However if the T+Cs say they will leave at safe place unless you specify otherwise, fault is yours.

Would you consider a doorstep in full view of a busy road/pavement to be a safe place?

If not was it grossly negligent to leave it there and more importantly would the T&C's apply limiting compensation?

 

[SimonR]

Depends what you can prove. Courier claimed to have delivered a parcel to my house, which was never delivered. I spoke to the depot and the rather surly depot manager asked if I was calling his driver a liar. (as I claimed that it had never been delivered to the house and left where they alleged). I asked if their vans were fitted with a cloaking device which prevented 3 CCTV cameras observing the delivery, as their vehicle had never been to or driven past my property. I said that I was forwarding the delivery notification and the CCTV footage to the Police if my parcel was not delivered in 24 hours. My parcel was delivered within 24 hours (although it was evident that it had been opened). Apparently it had been 'mis-delivered' and they had to retrieve it.

 

[CrimsonAvenger]

Depends what you can prove. Courier claimed to have delivered a parcel to my house, which was never delivered. I spoke to the depot and the rather surly depot manager asked if I was calling his driver a liar. (as I claimed that it had never been delivered to the house and left where they alleged). I asked if their vans were fitted with a cloaking device which prevented 3 CCTV cameras observing the delivery, as their vehicle had never been to or driven past my property. I said that I was forwarding the delivery notification and the CCTV footage to the Police if my parcel was not delivered in 24 hours. My parcel was delivered within 24 hours (although it was evident that it had been opened). Apparently it had been 'mis-delivered' and they had to retrieve it.

Utter scumbags

 

[kinobestew123]

Are we talking about Hermes or Yodel here?

 

[kindai]

T&C's apply limiting compensation?

T+Cs arent just there as placeholder text, they make up the contract of delivery, just because you didnt read them doesnt make it invalid.

So yea, if its in T+Cs they will leave it on doorstep/safe place then their obligation is filled.

If you want to take it to court then you may have some luck arguing that a doorstep on a busy road does not constitute "safe", depending on the wording in the T+Cs.

 

[Richie]

Slightly different scenario but same sort of thing.... if you had poor service in a restaurant and the food wasn't very good you'd still have to pay for it. You just wouldn't go back. But what if the restaurant gave you food poisoning?

Not really the same thing. If you get food poisoning from a regulated business (in the sense its regulated under health and safety and food standard) then that is a legal case as it has breached the Consumer Protection Act.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

The T&Cs will not state they’ll leave it on a door step, that’s nonsense. A courier service is positive proof of delivery or the recipient gets carded.

It’s almost always the receiver that determines what is or isn’t a safe place and if they can use it or not. It’s almost always the receiver which is liable for the safe place and if it’s not there then it’s their lookout.

What is relevant is if the service was insured and what level of insurance was on that. If there was no insurance then all you’ll get back is the cost of postage.

 

[gc123]

as you sent it , you are the only one who knows what the contract was you entered into.

a few weeks ago received a txt from hermes saying a parcel was being delivered that afternoon. about 20 mins later received another one saying due to problems on the van it would be delayed and would get to me as soon as.
it was for some patio door handles so not in a desperate hurry. a few days after i checked the hermes site and it said delivered and gave the same time slot i originally were given, i then rang hermes and a gentleman accused me of receiving the parcel .

a bit flustered i fired a email off to the selling company with all the details and times etc. not expecting anything about 2 hours later i got a email from the seller stating he had been in touch with hermes and the parcel would be delivered the next day.
sure enough it arrived left outside the front door....it had been opened and repacked in a white packet, so can only guess someone was told to fetch it back.

some delivery companies need to go to charm school and treat customers correctly

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Or they should start actually properly deal with their staff who ‘misplace’ parcels.

 

[Semple]

This is where a video doorbell comes in handy.

 

[jpaul]

T&C's on removal companies Ive used don't include insurance - so if the lorry went up, contents would be written off,
rather, you have to engage, too expensive, insurance, if you think the risk is high. (maybe home contents could be temporarily extended though)
I don't even remember a clause on handling negligence, it's probably just like the vaccine delivery best efforts.

 

[SimonR]

T&Cs can only form part of a contract as long as they are not punitive and are reasonable. There is an expectation that a courier will deliver a parcel to the address that it is paid to deliver it to or to make alternative arrangements to have the parcel delivered in a secure manner. Leaving an unattended parcel in plain site with no prior arrangement to do so could be construed as unreasonable behaviour and therefore a breach of contract (no matter what its T&Cs say), Hence it is liable for the parcel contents (to a reasonable amount). Conversely, you as the other party have a duty to ensure that you take reasonable precautions to ensure that the parcel is suitably packaged for transit and if it is of significant value, that you ensure that it is insured should it become damaged. Both parties have a responsibility here and reasonableness plays a part of it. It would be unreasonable for you to stick a Faberge egg in a box and send it using a £4.99 delivery option send it across the country without informing the courier that a priceless piece of art was being shipped via their service, as they may wish to decline to ship the goods or undertake additional measures to ensure its safe transit. Personally I wouldnt send £100 item via a budget courier without asking about insurance and then deciding whether I wanted to pay a premium to ensure it. That risk is on me. But I would expect them to take reasonable care of it, whilst in their custody and to deliver it safely.

For the OP I'd be entering a claim in the small claims court, siting unreasonable behaviour on the part of the courier. (failing to securely deliver the parcel) Let a Judge decide.

 

[WJA96]

Not really the same thing. If you get food poisoning from a regulated business (in the sense its regulated under health and safety and food standard) then that is a legal case as it has breached the Consumer Protection Act.

Actually, it would be a breach of the Food Safety Act 1990 for placing unfit or injurious food on the market. But your point is basically correct. There is a massive difference between criminal law and civil law. The food poisoning would be criminal and the breach of contract by the couriers would be civil or tort law. The OP suffered loss because of the negligence of the courier. It’s pretty cheap to go to small claims but good luck getting the money out of them even if you do win.

 

[WJA96]

T&Cs can only form part of a contract as long as they are not punitive and are reasonable. There is an expectation that a courier will deliver a parcel to the address that it is paid to deliver it to or to make alternative arrangements to have the parcel delivered in a secure manner. Leaving an unattended parcel in plain sight with no prior arrangement to do so could be construed as unreasonable behaviour and therefore a breach of contract (no matter what its T&Cs say), Hence it is liable for the parcel contents (to a reasonable amount). Conversely, you as the other party have a duty to ensure that you take reasonable precautions to ensure that the parcel is suitably packaged for transit and if it is of significant value, that you ensure that it is insured should it become damaged. Both parties have a responsibility here and reasonableness plays a part of it. It would be unreasonable for you to stick a Faberge egg in a box and send it using a £4.99 delivery option send it across the country without informing the courier that a priceless piece of art was being shipped via their service, as they may wish to decline to ship the goods or undertake additional measures to ensure its safe transit. Personally I wouldnt send £100 item via a budget courier without asking about insurance and then deciding whether I wanted to pay a premium to ensure it. That risk is on me. But I would expect them to take reasonable care of it, whilst in their custody and to deliver it safely.

For the OP I'd be entering a claim in the small claims court, citing unreasonable behaviour on the part of the courier. (failing to securely deliver the parcel) Let a Judge decide.

Your argument is correct, although please use a grammar-checker because it undermines your credibility when you type site for sight and site for cite etc. And you’re unlikely to get anywhere near a judge in the Magistrate’s Court.