Greenlizard0 PL & Championship Football Thread ** spoilers ** [22nd - 24th October 2021]

[Ayahuasca]

People keep talking about Ronaldo but Ronaldo isn't the problem IMO. He's never pressed much and it's not like you have to have a striker that presses to do well.

Yeah because in his early career the high press wasn't really a thing in Europe, even at Madrid it wasn't the style of many of their managers he played under. If you bring in someone like Ten Hag then he would be gimping his style of play if he played Ronaldo and Pogba week in week out.

Of course, not every team needs a striker who presses but if it's how the manager wants to play, then you sort of do.

 

[Alex h]

I'm with robbo on this Ronnie isn't the problem teams have sussed ollie out and he's got no plan b some would argue he's got no plan at all we've had this problem with ollie since he got the contract he was great before then it fell off a cliff but then he found away of scraping results who ever our number 9 is they struggle

The frightening part is we need a dm if ollie continues in the job we will need a complete new midfield as donny will be gone aswell as pogba matic can't play regularly so leaving us with just mcfred and look how that's going

 

[BaZ87]

People keep talking about Ronaldo but Ronaldo isn't the problem IMO.

He might not be the problem but he adds to it. You're trying to play a 4-2-3-1 with 4 forwards in the side. Trying to play out and out forwards in the wide positions of a 4-2-3-1 is a massive ask and even with harder working players and a stronger base behind them, you're going to get exposed. Add Ronaldo and the fact that he doesn't run into that and you're going to struggle.

Look at our first goal yesterday. It's a direct result of Utd trying to press from the front with a CF that doesn't move and a two man midfield. Fernandes ends up leaving his number 10 position to press our keeper, Greenwood then follows him by attempting to press VVD and without that extra midfielder Wan Bisakka's then trying to press Robertson - 3 easy passes and Jota's got the ball midway in your half with half your side taken out of the game.

Now you could argue that it was crazy of Utd trying to press in those circumstances but having a CF that would run would have prevented what happened. Fernandes isn't vacating his position to start the press and as a result neither are Greenwood and AWB.

This Utd squad is confused. You're playing 4-2-3-1 because it's the only way you can shoehorn everybody into the system but it doesn't really work.

 

[Robbo]

I understand Ronaldo isn't ideal in that sort of setup, but it can be worked around. The issues go far beyond him.

The tactics were woeful without Ronaldo too, but we've limped along by overwhelming teams because we have better players. It's never been great.

 

[The Running Man]

Guys it's embarrassing.

We got outplayed by many worse teams. Liverpool deserved the win.

We look amateur. Not helped by Maguires positioning and reactions.

They got showed at after Leicester. No reaction as we were as bad and 0-2 at half time vs atalanta.

Then again yesterday.

It's the same thing every week.

 

[chroniclard]

I think you would be in a better place if Ronaldo had not been signed, seems to be a commercial/board decision rather than a footballing one.

 

[The Running Man]

I think you would be in a better place if Ronaldo had not been signed, seems to be a commercial/board decision rather than a footballing one.

We wanted a hard-core striker.

He was available and we also wanted to stop city.

 

[JamesH85]

OLE even said yesterday after the game in his interview his plan was to play high press in the first half.

Look at the first goal again and the way the team pressed the ball, it's totally disjointed and slow. From Fernandes to greenwood to Wan Bissaka, they didn't look like they knew what to do. Compare that to the 5th goal when Pogba loses the ball.

The difference between the teams set ups was night and day, do you lay that at the managers feet for the tactics or the players feet because they didn't execute the.managers plan?

 

[Andybtsn]

The Man U defending yesterday is what I see from Leeds week in week out It did cost a fraction of the price mind

 

[Shamikebab]

Jose spent about £363m and Ole has spent about £440. Ole also had a better squad to start with.

I'm not suggesting that Mourinho was a good choice or the right choice but Neville was banging the drum about how bad Jose was yet he compares favourably to Ole in pretty much every area. Obviously the fact he is a toxic **** when things aren't going as he would like is somewhat of an argument against him.

Well that doesn't include the money Ole raised selling Mourinho's duds. Jose looks better at gross spend because he just hoarded deadwood rather than trying to move it on like Ole did.
Transfermarkt has Ole's spending at 298m, Jose's at 309m.

 

[JamesH85]

I think one.of the most alarming things for a United fan yesterday statistics wise was the defensive ones that popped up on sky, did anyone else see?

Ranked out of prem teams
Clean sheets :18th
Tackles per game: 20th
Errors leading to shots: 20th

 

[The Running Man]

I think one.of the most alarming things for a United fan yesterday statistics wise was the defensive ones that popped up on sky, did anyone else see?

Ranked out of prem teams
Clean sheets :18th
Tackles per game: 20th
Errors leading to shots: 20th

We have the least tackles per game compared to any team in the European leagues with the exception of Sussalo.

 

[BaZ87]

Speculation around Ole's future is likely to be the biggest talking point over the next few days so it can have it's own thread. I won't move all previous posts but new stuff can go in the thread below:

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/oles-at-the-wheel-and-is-about-to-crash.18940221/

 

[BaZ87]

I didn't really notice it live but watching back bits of the game again and we were almost playing a 4-4-2 diamond yesterday, certainly in possession anyway. I know our wide forwards make diagonal runs into the box all the time but Salah and Jota were playing really narrow when we had the ball, like a front 2 with Firmino dropping into midfield. Most things worked for us yesterday but that tweak in particular caused Utd so many problems with Maguire and Shaw looking completely lost, not knowing who to pick up.

 

[DrToffnar]

I noticed that also. The amount of space created was frightening at times and you could see Maguire inparticular struggling to know where to put himself. It's not contentious to say that they're the best team in the world to watch at times, poorly configured opposition or no.

 

[adam cool dude]

I didn't really notice it live but watching back bits of the game again and we were almost playing a 4-4-2 diamond yesterday, certainly in possession anyway. I know our wide forwards make diagonal runs into the box all the time but Salah and Jota were playing really narrow when we had the ball, like a front 2 with Firmino dropping into midfield. Most things worked for us yesterday but that tweak in particular caused Utd so many problems with Maguire and Shaw looking completely lost, not knowing who to pick up.

It is also how I think we should play going forward. With Bruno in that Bobby role and with Rashford and Sancho left and right.

Only problem is we have Ronaldo now and stunting Rashford to just put him on the left seems a waste.

 

[sneakysnail]

They're 6th in Serie A already 10 pts behind the leaders...

Form with Ronaldo
Friendlies
WWLW
league
DL

After he left
LWDWWWWWWWD

in the league they have 4 wins and 2 draws in the last 6 games. They also beat Chelsea in the champions league. That L is also against Napoli aka the best side in italy currently. They are in good form and playing much better without Ronaldo.

Dont know if they will catch Napoli but they will be up there.

 

[JamesH85]

haha wow! Can Scholes see the future???

https://youtu.be/h0uHmmQ4f_8?t=23

 

[BaZ87]

I completely forgot that it's now 8 away games on the bounce (9 if you include the last away of last season) that we've scored 3 or more goals. 30 goals in 8 away games! That's insane and to put that into perspective, 12 teams didn't manager to score 30 goals in 19 away games (PL only to make it easy to find) last season and only Man City (40) and us (39) managed more than 35.

 

[fez]

haha wow! Can Scholes see the future???

https://youtu.be/h0uHmmQ4f_8?t=23

I have felt like Scholes there for the past 2 years. Watching us pull results out of the bag after awful performance after awful performance and having everyone say "its the result that matters", "how can you not enjoy beating Stoke 2-1 after being outplayed by them for 70 minutes". The writing for this United side under Ole was on the wall for years. Its like flipping a coin every weekend and then taking 5 heads in a row as proof that you are beating the odds. You're just getting lucky and eventually your luck will turn.