Moving from UK to Switzerland/Basel?

[Nexus18]

As per subject title. Anyone done this? If so what was your experience and any regrets? How's things like the culture and work to life balance etc.?

I do recall of @malachi maybe making the move?

Essentially I've had a Switzerland recruiter reach out enquiring if I would be interested as they have massive demand for my work area and are having a hard time finding people with the skillset.

It's one of these things were I have that feeling if I don't pursue it, I'll regret it when I look back on my life especially since I am in a position to be able to do this i.e. young, no real ties, decent amount of savings (which were meant for a house but due to the crazy prices here, still seems so far away)

 

[mid_gen]

You're seriously considering an international move just because a recruiter has blown some smoke up your ass?

I lived abroad for 10 years, and would thoroughly recommend it to almost anyone, but if you decide to do it, take a considered approach, decide where you want to go, then find a job.

 

[tom_e]

@Kreeeee may be able to shed some light on making the move.

 

[randomshenans]

Yes. I work in Basel.

 

[BowdonUK]

How is your language skills? I've noticed when people move to foreign language countries a big stumbling block is language.

It's maybe not as big an issue if you're already in a relationship. But as OP says he's single so he'll want to mingle.

 

[Nexus18]

You're seriously considering an international move just because a recruiter has blown some smoke up your ass?

I lived abroad for 10 years, and would thoroughly recommend it to almost anyone, but if you decide to do it, take a considered approach, decide where you want to go, then find a job.

Well better way to put it is that it has definitely sparked my interest/thought process for it. My area of work is in huge demand even here in the UK so not too hard to believe they are having a hard time finding people too.

Have always wanted to move abroad for as long as I can remember, likes of Canada (i.e. Calgary, Toronto, Vancouver) is where appeals the most but always liked Switzerland too, that and it is rated highly for overall quality of life. From having had a read on Basel, seems it is highly rated and among one of the top places in Switzerland? That and also right on the border of Germany and France so can nip over to get things for cheap.

Yes. I work in Basel.

Did you move from the UK? If you don't mind me asking, what is your work sector? How do you find the work to life balance over there?

How is your language skills? I've noticed when people move to foreign language countries a big stumbling block is language.

It's maybe not as big an issue if you're already in a relationship. But as OP says he's single so he'll want to mingle.

Yup that is a concern too, have read you can get by just fine in Basel with English but obviously being able to speak German would be beneficial among the locals

 

[bainbridge]

I went there for a city break and found the place to be very pretty, very expensive and very boring.

 

[mid_gen]

Well better way to put it is that it has definitely sparked my interest/thought process for it. My area of work is in huge demand even here in the UK so not too hard to believe they are having a hard time finding people too.

Have always wanted to move abroad for as long as I can remember, likes of Canada (i.e. Calgary, Toronto, Vancouver) is where appeals the most but always liked Switzerland too, that and it is rated highly for overall quality of life. From having had a read on Basel, seems it is highly rated and among one of the top places in Switzerland? That and also right on the border of Germany and France so can nip over to get things for cheap.

Did you move from the UK? If you don't mind me asking, what is your work sector? How do you find the work to life balance over there?

Yup that is a concern too, have read you can get by just fine in Basel with English but obviously being able to speak German would be beneficial among the locals

Labour shortages everywhere in most skilled jobs these days, so don't let a recruiter sway you

I lived in Asia, and Germany. Germany has very strong work-life balance and culture of putting home life first and I imagine that theme continues in Austria. Although you can get by in Germany without any German, everything is so, so much easier, and people will treat you better if you speak the the language. Even if you're crap, the fact you try is enough.....just defaulting to English will get you short thrift from most people....even more so down Austria and the South of Germany.

Considered moving to Toronto for a while, and still do sometimes, truly cosmopolitan, English-speaking, exciting place, great food and drink, sports, the lakes. Cold though Expensive place to live though. If I was in my 20s still I'd be there like a shot....but I'm a bit older now and not so bothered about nightlife and such.

I've only visited Basel, but I imagine it scores very highly on places to live like Düsseldorf where I was, being close to a border and generally quite cosmopolitan, big arts scene. Having the alps on your doorstep is pretty awesome too.

 

[Em3bbs]

You're seriously considering an international move just because a recruiter has blown some smoke up your ass?

I did this and lived happily in Munich for five years.

 

[Em3bbs]

Although you can get by in Germany without any German, everything is so, so much easier, and people will treat you better if you speak the the language. Even if you're crap, the fact you try is enough.....just defaulting to English will get you short thrift from most people....even more so down Austria and the South of Germany.

Totally the opposite of the experience I had living in Bavaria and travelling to Austria regularly as it was a simple and cheap train ride. People would hear you trying to speak in German but realise you were English, and then reply in English so they could practice on a native speaker.

For one of my jobs I joined a startup ISP and they changed the office meeting language to English despite my protestations!

 

[randomshenans]

Did you move from the UK? If you don't mind me asking, what is your work sector? How do you find the work to life balance over there?

I moved here 10yrs ago. I was in pure IT, doing contracting, and now work in product management. I have an incredible work life balance compared to the UK. This year I took 8 weeks holiday. (I am taking all of December off like I did last year) I WFH right now but when I don't, it's 20min cycle away.
Even when busy, it's nothing like the UK and so I can always have time for things I need to do (for me things like picking up kids etc).
Salaries are generally excellent, as is the Swiss social contributions for pensions etc.

I went there for a city break and found the place to be very pretty, very expensive and very boring.

It is expensive compared to the UK, for sure. Cost of living is higher and the standard of cuisine is improving (anything other than local I mean) but it's nothing compared to the options you get in the UK. Want a curry? You're talking 80chf for 2 takeaway easy. Would be what? 15quid in UK?

It's a small town. It's not big at all. They do a great job in festivals though. They have Herbsmesse on at the moment which is like a big fun fare through the city. After this they'll close down and setup christmas markets. In feb they have fassnacht which is a big festival here with parades and loads of stuff going on.
But it's quiet generally. It's also in the centre of Europe. I can be in Milan in 3.5hrs. I can be at a lake to paddle board in under an hour. I can be up a mountain. I can have some amazing road biking, or mountain biking all around me. I can ski from here in under an hour to the closest slopes.
I can give more examples

Beer is expensive though. Local places are cheaper, but the Irish bars (expat hubs really!) you'll pay about 10CHF a pint. You can take that though when you get paid probably 2x what you would in the UK, depending on your role and sector.
Health insurance is a requirement. You'll need to pay about 450CHF a month personally for health insurance, but it's very good, you can just use it whenever.
They will send you random bills for stuff... seems to always be something. Don't put your bin out early, only on the day it comes. Otherwise 80chf fine. Recycling has to be put outside in a certain way, or? 80CHF fine but everything works and funnily enough, runs very efficiently. The tram system is great, too.

Yup that is a concern too, have read you can get by just fine in Basel with English but obviously being able to speak German would be beneficial among the locals

I don't speak German. Das ist nicht gut I can order stuff in German sure, but it's not great. I live in France literally 2 mins over the border though, so my French is better, but not fluent at all. I speak English at work and everyone speaks English to me. I try, and as has been said, people appreciate that. If you'd like to stay a bit more long term, getting your permit for semi perm stay requires a language test.
One thing to note is that it's harder than ever now to get a permit due to brexit. I'll be applying for French citizenship purely because I fall into the UK citizen bucket still now, which means there is only a small pot each year of permits to give out to that lot. It's Swiss first, prove you can't find a Swiss person to do the role. Then EU, prove that, then rest of the world.

Any questions happy to answer.

I accepted the contract not having been there, only onto the campus for the interview. I arrived in my little saxo at the time, bin bags of clothes and thought they spoke french until I tried to ask for directions. Turned out OK for me 10yrs later haha

 

[mid_gen]

Totally the opposite of the experience I had living in Bavaria and travelling to Austria regularly as it was a simple and cheap train ride. People would hear you trying to speak in German but realise you were English, and then reply in English so they could practice on a native speaker.

For one of my jobs I joined a startup ISP and they changed the office meeting language to English despite my protestations!

The companies I worked at were English-speaking as well. As I said, you can get by perfectly well with just English...but you will get short thrift from some people for not even attempting German. Particularly if you want to settle for a while, dealing with local businesses and suchlike, everyone is more friendly and welcoming once you start speaking the language.

Not to mention dealing with official business, the Bürgeramt etc, you won't get jack in English, everything is so much easier once you have passable German.

 

[R-evans]

Not Switzerland but we moved to Ann Arbor, Michigan a few years ago after my wife was offered a job at the University there. We stayed for 20 months, would have been much longer but illness in the family brought us home.

We knew about the potential move for years before (the lady pretty much offered my wife a job at a conference they were at while she was still doing her PhD) so had given it a lot of thought beforehand. We loved it while we there, the change was refreshing and the location was incredible despite the freezing winters, it helps that Ann Arbor is one of the most desirable places to live in the US and often ranked as the most educated town in North America.

I'd go back in a heartbeat, but she has found her dream job in the UK now and we've purchased a house, but moving and living abroad for me is the best thing I've ever done.

 

[randomshenans]

The companies I worked at were English-speaking as well. As I said, you can get by perfectly well with just English...but you will get short thrift from some people for not even attempting German. Particularly if you want to settle for a while, dealing with local businesses and suchlike, everyone is more friendly and welcoming once you start speaking the language.

Not to mention dealing with official business, the Bürgeramt etc, you won't get jack in English, everything is so much easier once you have passable German.

Most companies here will pay for you to take German courses and give you time off for it, too.

As for the dealing with companies, it's such a multi cultural place you can really get by without it as someone can help, whatever it is.

 

[malachi]

As per subject title. Anyone done this? If so what was your experience and any regrets? How's things like the culture and work to life balance etc.?

I do recall of @malachi maybe making the move?

Yep, so far so good. Its been nearly 2.5 years since I moved here. Still enjoying a lot more than living in the UK.

My German languages skills are still rubbish but I am getting there and my girlfriend helps me. I start an new job in February and I will be surrounded by German speakers again so that should also help.

My only regret....i should have done this sooner instead of my mid 30's but better late than never as they say.

 

[mid_gen]

I did this and lived happily in Munich for five years.

Well, I had a call from a former colleague who basically offered me a job in Hong Kong, which I took, so I'm not against making an impromptu move It's more that OP seemed to take a recruiter/salesman's hot air seriously

 

[Nexus18]

Great advice/info here

Labour shortages everywhere in most skilled jobs these days, so don't let a recruiter sway you

I lived in Asia, and Germany. Germany has very strong work-life balance and culture of putting home life first and I imagine that theme continues in Austria. Although you can get by in Germany without any German, everything is so, so much easier, and people will treat you better if you speak the the language. Even if you're crap, the fact you try is enough.....just defaulting to English will get you short thrift from most people....even more so down Austria and the South of Germany.

Considered moving to Toronto for a while, and still do sometimes, truly cosmopolitan, English-speaking, exciting place, great food and drink, sports, the lakes. Cold though Expensive place to live though. If I was in my 20s still I'd be there like a shot....but I'm a bit older now and not so bothered about nightlife and such.

I've only visited Basel, but I imagine it scores very highly on places to live like Düsseldorf where I was, being close to a border and generally quite cosmopolitan, big arts scene. Having the alps on your doorstep is pretty awesome too.

haha true that, as mentioned, it's just simply ignited that spark and on the whole, not exactly overly happy in the UK either. Obviously I'll need to do a lot of reading and looking into things as well as many considerations i.e. companies that will help with the move/transition in terms of residency, right to work/work permit, benefits etc. etc.

Pretty much the same here, little to no interest in the "nightlife" scene now and never really felt that the UK culture was right for me anyway, much rather have the quiet life, nice scenery, lakes etc. Ideal place is really Banff tbh

I moved here 10yrs ago. I was in pure IT, doing contracting, and now work in product management. I have an incredible work life balance compared to the UK. This year I took 8 weeks holiday. (I am taking all of December off like I did last year) I WFH right now but when I don't, it's 20min cycle away.
Even when busy, it's nothing like the UK and so I can always have time for things I need to do (for me things like picking up kids etc).
Salaries are generally excellent, as is the Swiss social contributions for pensions etc.

It is expensive compared to the UK, for sure. Cost of living is higher and the standard of cuisine is improving (anything other than local I mean) but it's nothing compared to the options you get in the UK. Want a curry? You're talking 80chf for 2 takeaway easy. Would be what? 15quid in UK?

It's a small town. It's not big at all. They do a great job in festivals though. They have Herbsmesse on at the moment which is like a big fun fare through the city. After this they'll close down and setup christmas markets. In feb they have fassnacht which is a big festival here with parades and loads of stuff going on.

But it's quiet generally. It's also in the centre of Europe. I can be in Milan in 3.5hrs. I can be at a lake to paddle board in under an hour. I can be up a mountain. I can have some amazing road biking, or mountain biking all around me. I can ski from here in under an hour to the closest slopes.

I can give more examples

Beer is expensive though. Local places are cheaper, but the Irish bars (expat hubs really!) you'll pay about 10CHF a pint. You can take that though when you get paid probably 2x what you would in the UK, depending on your role and sector.
Health insurance is a requirement. You'll need to pay about 450CHF a month personally for health insurance, but it's very good, you can just use it whenever.
They will send you random bills for stuff... seems to always be something. Don't put your bin out early, only on the day it comes. Otherwise 80chf fine. Recycling has to be put outside in a certain way, or? 80CHF fine but everything works and funnily enough, runs very efficiently. The tram system is great, too.

I don't speak German. Das ist nicht gut I can order stuff in German sure, but it's not great. I live in France literally 2 mins over the border though, so my French is better, but not fluent at all. I speak English at work and everyone speaks English to me. I try, and as has been said, people appreciate that. If you'd like to stay a bit more long term, getting your permit for semi perm stay requires a language test.

One thing to note is that it's harder than ever now to get a permit due to brexit. I'll be applying for French citizenship purely because I fall into the UK citizen bucket still now, which means there is only a small pot each year of permits to give out to that lot. It's Swiss first, prove you can't find a Swiss person to do the role. Then EU, prove that, then rest of the world.

Any questions happy to answer.

I accepted the contract not having been there, only onto the campus for the interview. I arrived in my little saxo at the time, bin bags of clothes and thought they spoke french until I tried to ask for directions. Turned out OK for me 10yrs later haha

Thanks, really helpful that!

My area of work is IT too (cloud/devops engineering to be precise).

8 weeks holiday sounds lovely! I've really grown to dislike the UKs attitude towards work, seems to be all about living to work rather than working to live, 50+ hour weeks becoming more common/expected etc.

Wouldn't be against learning German either.

Please do give more examples too!

80chf to pounds is about £63 For a decent curry, you're talking about a £10 for one..... Speaking of food, how is it over there? I do love a good Indian & Chinese takeaway and of course pizza and the usual UK grub.

 

[arknor]

How is your language skills? I've noticed when people move to foreign language countries a big stumbling block is language.

It's maybe not as big an issue if you're already in a relationship. But as OP says he's single so he'll want to mingle.

yea you'd be suprised how many people in Switzerland don't speak English or find it too embarrassing to try

I went there for a city break and found the place to be very pretty, very expensive and very boring.

you sure it was Basel?

it's the roughest place in Switzerland I went too and looked way worse than everywhere else


@Nexus18 btw if you move to switzerland go to a railway counter at SBB and say you want to buy a halbtax/half fare card.

you need your passport, A passport photo (use a machine at a train station) A swiss address and 185CH.
You can start using the discount immediately without waiting for the card in the post.

it renews anually if you don't cancel it on the website, even if you paid in cash it will renew and you will get a bill for the renewal amont of 165chf (20chf discount) if you don't cancel it first.


Geneva to zurich the last time I was there was 90chf, but with halftax 45chf.

so few journeys and it already pays itself, discounts on buses and trams too but nowhere near 50%, also even on super saver discount tickets it still reduces them by 50%
I think it was like 20-30% on buses/trams.

don't socialise with the expat groups if you want to make swiss friends.
watch out for the Romanians, Hungarians etc trying to grab a wealthy bloke

Swiss women are amazing, especially the ones that grew up in little villages and love nature.

if you live in an apartment you need to be super quiet during the "quiet hours" I can't remember what times it was in the day , but after 10pm you gotta be super quiet or people will call the police and they will come to your house because you took a shower or whatever during "quiet hours"

swiss people get super anal about noise complaints, and the police do treat it seriously

 

[randomshenans]

8 weeks holiday sounds lovely! I've really grown to dislike the UKs attitude towards work, seems to be all about living to work rather than working to live, 50+ hour weeks becoming more common/expected etc.

Standard isn't 8 weeks, but I probably work 9hrs a day (WFH now) and so rack up 5 extra hours a week. So really every 2 weeks I get a day off I don't have to, but I start at 8 because it suits me (post kid drop off) and then due to working with the US loads, my afternoons end up busy. WLB in general is good though. Polar opposite from the UK.

My area of work is IT too (cloud/devops engineering to be precise).

Loads of demand out here for that. I know of places for sure.

80chf to pounds is about £63 For a decent curry, you're talking about a £10 for one..... Speaking of food, how is it over there? I do love a good Indian & Chinese takeaway and of course pizza and the usual UK grub.

Yea, it's expensive. No doubt. You should be able to command about 110-120k CHF I'd say without issue. Some companies for senior devops people you'll be looking at 120-140k CHF, so 95-110k GBP. It will depend on level and company though, but you still find yourself scoffing at the prices of food and takeaways. I wouldn't even say it was the level of UK food. The food scene in the UK is far better, but it has improved a lot over the 10yrs I've been here. The Swiss have a rule, so if you open a burger shop/van/whatever for example, you must use ingredients from Switzerland. All of it. As the minimum wage and general salaries are higher, produce is higher, too. Therefore, you have to charge more.
You can get pretty decent curries and chinese though. Nice thai places have popped up too. You can get good pizza.

You don't tip people. They find it weird. They're paid salaries and good ones, so tipping isn't seen as something to do.

AMA though. I don't know what you like to do, so it's harder for me to answer, but I'm here for any questions I can try and answer!

 

[randomshenans]

@Nexus18 btw if you move to switzerland go to a railway counter at SBB and say you want to buy a halbtax or whatever it's called.

Yep! Well worth it and you can get pretty much anywhere! You can get right to the slopes by train.

don't socialise with the expat groups if you want to make swiss friends.

You can have both! Swiss people can be funny about friends I found. Like, "I already have some, why would I need more?" but not all. Meetup is big in Basel, and a great place to find all sorts of people around a subject you like. They have a big hackathon series too.

it's the roughest place in Switzerland I went too and looked way worse than everywhere else

I wouldn't call it rough. Centre is pretty, but small. Klein basel can be rough, but that's very far from a UK rough. I never feel unsafe anywhere.

watch out for the Romanians, Hungarians etc trying to grab a wealthy bloke

Gypos in general. They come every year and park their caravans over the border in france and **** me right off.

Swiss women are amazing, especially the ones that grew up in little villages and love nature

As I am newly single, this might be something I find out more about haha