New GPU dilemma (FE vs Aftermarket)

[Swi1ch]

I'm planning a new 5900x build - 2k gaming, streaming, and video editing. No mining.

I want a 3090, but given the aftermarket prices are ludicrous I've been sat waiting on FE PartAlert for an FE card.

However I've started to read about people having to mod the FE cards to get reasonable temps - something I'm unwilling to do. Additionally it's been at least 6 weeks since a UK drop of the 3090 FE.

So I'm considering an aftermarket 3080ti. It'll suck paying £200~ more for a lower class card, but won't really hurt me. It will also be possible to actually buy one, and I won't need (in theory) have to modify the card and void the warranty to get it to run at ok temps.

I figure in terms of practical performance there is probably very little in it - I don't mine and don't plan on 4k gaming so the extra VRAM is not all that, and most of the benchmarks I've looked up only put the 3090 a few % ahead of the 3080ti in games.

Any input on this? By going with the 3080ti I'm knowingly getting myself scalped out of £200~, but I can definitely get it and shouldn't have to mod it which is almost worth it. That said the 3090 FE will probably hold its value more.

 

[_Cereal_]

Any higher end Nvidia card is gonna be relatively hot no matter what AIB you pick.
Personally i would go for either the 3080TI FE or the 3090 FE.

 

[andybird123]

Oof, he doesn't like the thermals of the 3090, so you're suggesting he get the 3090 GPU with a 3080 cooler on it?

Not a good idea.

OP, yeah if you don't want to do the thermal pad mod then checkout reviews on the best temps/noise AIB cards and go that route. You know exactly what it's costing you.

 

[Poneros]

You probably have to mod any of the GDDR6X cards if you want decent vram temps, but don't know if you've followed the 3090 saga? Some sketchy build quality overall. Imo these cards are so expensive I don't know why you wouldn't mine on them during down-time, you can probably get back 50% of the costs if not more within a year. I'd pay more attention to what brand has a longer warranty & a UK RMA center as ultimately you can just let the manufacturer assume the headache they're responsible for if the card fails.

TL;DW

OCP trip point set extremely high (estimated to be 800-1200A). Power stages unlikely to survive such high currents, so basically there is no way the OCP is doing its job to shutdown before damage happens to power stages.

Also the video goes a little bit into individual power channel balancing circuitry. Nothing that interesting there, although some channels are "teamed" with 2 power stages in parallel for that channel, so if one power stage goes bad, the other power stage could bear the entire load of that channel leading to failure. (But this isn't something novel, many motherboards use this teaming approach).

Also, some of the channels with only one power stage seemingly have a limit set way too high for that one power stage.

Going back to total power OCP:

Speculates that RTX3090s might experience extremely high transient loads, which requires the OCP trip point to be set high to prevent nuisance shutdowns.

Manufacturer of power stages doesn't very clearly specify how often the power stages can absorb these extremely high transients.

Speculation is that the OCP trip point is set so high to prevent shutting down the card on those transients, but obvious that risks damaging the power stages. So the design appears to be under-engineered from a transient power delivery perspective.

My personal opinion from someone with an EE degree:

Power delivery is a very complicated topic and people used to treat the power delivery as a separate subsystem, but today it has to be co-designed along with the rest of the silicon and sometimes even the software, so unless you are a GPU manufacturer you are unlikely to be able to gather enough data and have the architectural insights about the failures modes and root causes of why your power delivery system is failing.

IMO, this is likely just a power system that has been under-engineered from a reliability perspective.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/qf1qc8/buildzoid_more_speculative_rambling_about_the_rtx/

 

[_Cereal_]

Oof, he doesn't like the thermals of the 3090, so you're suggesting he get the 3090 GPU with a 3080 cooler on it?

Not a good idea.

OP, yeah if you don't want to do the thermal pad mod then checkout reviews on the best temps/noise AIB cards and go that route. You know exactly what it's costing you.

Vram temperature wise they are all gonna be similar (as in hot), GPU core temps knowing how to undervolt makes a BIG difference.
AIB wise i would suggest the MSI suprim cards since their higher end models actually have extra heat pipes just for the VRAM and they make a noticable difference, most AIB cards will have rubbish VRAM temps.

 

[chroniclard]

If you are.not mining there is no need to mod the cards. FE runs within its defined parameters. Undervolt with a curve, done.

 

[_Cereal_]

If you are.not mining there is no need to mod the cards. FE runs within its defined parameters. Undervolt with a curve, done.

undervolting the FE doesnt really affect the VRAM temperatures, only the GPU cores (not disagreeing with you about its "defined parameters")

 

[willhub]

I mined on an FE card but 104 degrees C average was within specificatiton, was fine.

 

[THX1138]

try and save money get the FE if you can.

 

[newuser]

The vram on a 3090FE does get hot. Mine's been getting hot for the last 10 months without any issue doing rendering, vr and 4k gaming. They saw fit to put a three year warranty on it so I suspect they think they'll last at least that long. You'll need decent case airflow to keep the GPU fans at a reasonable noise level as well.

 

[Swi1ch]

You probably have to mod any of the GDDR6X cards if you want decent vram temps, but don't know if you've followed the 3090 saga? Some sketchy build quality overall. Imo these cards are so expensive I don't know why you wouldn't mine on them during down-time, you can probably get back 50% of the costs if not more within a year. I'd pay more attention to what brand has a longer warranty & a UK RMA center as ultimately you can just let the manufacturer assume the headache they're responsible for if the card fails.

Only reason I'm not considering mining is because I know nothing about mining. I was kinda under the impression that unless you had a specific dedicated setup you would just burn more electricity than actually earn.

try and save money get the FE if you can.

This would be nice but I think my desire to play BF2042 might override my scalp-resistance. Ultimately might only last a couple of weeks before I bite the bullet on whatever is available, but I'll see.

The vram on a 3090FE does get hot. Mine's been getting hot for the last 10 months without any issue doing rendering, vr and 4k gaming. They saw fit to put a three year warranty on it so I suspect they think they'll last at least that long. You'll need decent case airflow to keep the GPU fans at a reasonable noise level as well.

I'm debating between an O11D with an AIO (Probably Arctic II 360) or a Lancool II with air setup (DRP 4 or NHD15) so I guess you would lean towards the Lancool?

That said I have an existing O11D (not available for use in the new build) that is fully decked out with fans - they're Corsair QL series (I think) so big on looks, not so much on actual airflow but the internal temps stay pretty good. 3 bottom intake, 3 side intake, 3 top exhaust push/pull with an AIO.

 

[Joxeon]

Supprised you didn't jump on the 3080ti FE which was available last week, do you need more than 12gb VRAM for video editing? And 2k gaming performance would be around the same.

 

[Swi1ch]

Supprised you didn't jump on the 3080ti FE which was available last week, do you need more than 12gb VRAM for video editing? And 2k gaming performance would be around the same.

I was still hellbent on a 3090 at that point. This thread is me bending away from that - there's only so long I can sit and wait, especially if there could be issues with the card, or waiting could make other cards unavailable.

I currently have 8gb VRAM and don't have any issues with what video editing that I currently do, so I would be very surprised if I suddenly needed more than 12gb.

 

[Poneros]

Only reason I'm not considering mining is because I know nothing about mining. I was kinda under the impression that unless you had a specific dedicated setup you would just burn more electricity than actually earn.

Not at all. It's very easy to setup (1-2 hours) and electricity is only a small percentage compared to how much you make. Add your electricity price at this site and check the box for 3090 then hit calculate, it should provide a decent rough estimate.

https://whattomine.com/

 

[chrcoluk]

Undervolt and issue solved, I expect most people are not undervolting or dare I say it even overclocking their cards.

I dont know about the 3090FE, but my 3080FE even at stock gets no hotter than my 1080ti AIB gigabyte aorus used to get, with the undervolt it runs as cool as my gtx 1070 used to.

This 3080FE is a very well built card, and it also cools the cpu/ram temps as some of the hot air is also pumped out still.

I personally would get a 3090FE if you prepared to pay the price for a 3080tiFE

 

[uscool]

FE all day considering what AIB prices are , if you aint mining I wouldnt worry about it just setup good airflow in case and undervolt after all they offer 3 years warranty and they say its within spec if you are planning to mine you have to re pad to get the most out of it, you can match or beat stock performance undervolting with added benefit of lower temps and power usage

 

[b-r0ck]

FWIW, getting a 3090 or 3080Ti FE is pretty easy. There was a drop a week or two ago. Last few drops they've lasted hours

 

[Swi1ch]

FWIW, getting a 3090 or 3080Ti FE is pretty easy. There was a drop a week or two ago. Last few drops they've lasted hours

It's been at least 6 weeks since the last 3090 FE notification - I'm kinda concerned I'll be at work and miss it, or (very likely) my bank blocks the transaction and causes me to miss.

Edit. That's for a UK drop, though. I was kind of wary of going in on any of the EU drops incase I get slapped at customs for VAT.

 

[uscool]

It's been at least 6 weeks since the last 3090 FE notification - I'm kinda concerned I'll be at work and miss it, or (very likely) my bank blocks the transaction and causes me to miss.

gotta keep eye on the phone everyday if you can most likely 9am-12pm

 

[b-r0ck]

It's been at least 6 weeks since the last 3090 FE notification - I'm kinda concerned I'll be at work and miss it, or (very likely) my bank blocks the transaction and causes me to miss.

Edit. That's for a UK drop, though. I was kind of wary of going in on any of the EU drops incase I get slapped at customs for VAT.

Ahh yeah, I was thinking of the recent Ti-only drop. 90 & 80 FEs haven't been dropped in a long while

Telegram notifs helped me big time, Discord seems to be a bit hit-and-miss. Two or three 3080Ti FE drops ago, my card was declined, and I had to wait 10+ mins for the bank to do their anti-fraud checks, worked out anyway. When they drop in the morning there seems to be a slower rush too