Kyle Rittenhouse - teen who shot three people in Kenosha

Caporegime
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As I'm sure would we all.

My point was, he didn't need to put himself in that position in the first place.

Neither did the rioters or anyone else out that night... Not really sure what the point is there beyond stating the obvious. I mean maybe if people hadn't burned down those car places the owners wouldn't have asked anyone to help them protect them the second night.

No one needed to be out there protesting in the first place as the thing being protested about was pretty dumb anyway - a sex offender literally turning up at his victim's house (his ex) and threatening her, not stopping after being tasered then being dumb enough to pull a knife on armed police officers... of course, he was black and given the timing the media stirred up some outrage over it.
 
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Wanting to defend your community from anarchists should be applauded. Frankly anyone who sympathises with people who think aimless violence and destruction against innocent people and/or their property isn’t right in the head.
 
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If some of the people there believed him to be an active shooter then attempting to disarm him and apprehend him would be seen as an act of
bravery. We'll never know exactly how everyone there perceived him. Still, children shouldn't be wandering the streets with weapons of war or any firearm. Absolute madness.

We don't really need to know how they perceived him tbh.. we just need to know what he faced and whether his actions were reasonable in response and in each case it seems they probably were.

Forget children and "weapons of war" (this was a semi-auto civilian rifle), no one (aside from law enforcement) should be wandering the streets with firearms, unfortunately, it's 'merica and they have silly rules.

Notably, the person who fired first has been charged but the last guy, who had a concealed pistol illegally, hasn't been.
 
Caporegime
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Wanting to defend your community from anarchists should be applauded. Frankly anyone who sympathises with people who think aimless violence and destruction against innocent people and/or their property isn’t right in the head.

Yup, this "he shouldn't have been there" etc.. is pretty silly as a point, ideally of course he shouldn't but that applies doubly so for the people who attacked him, they definitely shouldn't have been there.

He was there to help with people protecting a local business after spending all day cleaning up the mess those people had created and they were there to riot and start fires.

Any sort of reasonable protest was well over by that point with it being late at night and the police trying to clear the streets, get people to disperse and go home after what had happened the night before.

The people left were basically either rioters/looters and the guys there protecting businesses.
 
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With their (CNN) reporting of this case and how they described the Ivermectin/Joe Rogan farse, I really do believe that their only purpose, and that of Fox News, is to play people against each other.

There is absolutely no middle ground to be found with either of them. Surely their can't be people who actually agree with and can't see through the **** that they say. :confused:

I actually quite like "The Hill", it's quite balanced reporting overall for a news outlet.

 
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Nobody needed to put themselves at risk that night but I guess some people feel they have a sense of duty to their communities


Not a child. Would you let a child wander the streets of London in the middle of a riot with a weapon of war and not think, oh this might end very badly? As others have said there were lots of people armed there that night and at other riots/protests but they managed to not kill people. If any adults were involved in arming him or knowing he was going to be armed and did nothing to stop him then they should by rights be in the dock next to him. He is a child, he should never have been allowed to be in that position.
 
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There was national riots all over the country, people were burning down cities and causing billions in damages. There wasn't just a riot in Kenosha that was being handled by the Police, there was wanton destruction and vandalism on a large scale that the Police were failing to do anything about, a lot of people felt they needed to do their part to try and stop their country from being destroyed. How do you not get that? It was huge national news.

911 and the BLM riots aren't in any way comparable. One was an attack on the nation itself by an international terrorist organisation that resulted in thousands of deaths and a country being bought to a standstill and shocked to its very soul. The other is race riots which America has a long history of. Its a ridiculous comparison.
 
Soldato
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Its an interesting thought experiment. Knowing the police weren't coming, how much of your community would you let burn and be destroyed before you act? This wasn't a few wheelie bins and a shop window, it was $50'000'000 worth of damage in one city.

All the focus is on Kyle but it started long ago, was triggered again with Jacob Blake, then BLM/Antifa, then the lack of action from the police.

I'd agree with Klink that a 17 year old had no business being there and if it was my son he would be nowhere near the place. But I don't blame him for his actions given the circumstances he found himself.
 
Soldato
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911 and the BLM riots aren't in any way comparable. One was an attack on the nation itself by an international terrorist organisation that resulted in thousands of deaths and a country being bought to a standstill and shocked to its very soul. The other is race riots which America has a long history of. Its a ridiculous comparison.

There wasn't a comparison made, it was an example of American attitudes. I know you struggle with reading comprehension though so don't worry I won't judge.
 
Caporegime
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911 and the BLM riots aren't in any way comparable. One was an attack on the nation itself by an international terrorist organisation that resulted in thousands of deaths and a country being bought to a standstill and shocked to its very soul. The other is race riots which America has a long history of. Its a ridiculous comparison.

To play devil's advocate wouldn't you consider Antifa to be an international terrorist organisation considering their actions lead to dozens of deaths and more overall devastation of communities than 9/11?
 
Caporegime
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The fact that the victims made the first mistake doesn't absolve the vigilantes of making the second one.

No but no one is making that argument, the argument is simply that he tried to flee and used force in self defence against people who pursued and attacked/threatened him to the point where he was in fear for his life. It’s a pretty basic argument for using lethal force in self defence.

No, and even under Trump they were not officially classified as terrorists.

Part of that is simply because of the fragmented network of individual antifa orgs some of which certainly could be considered as such.
 
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What do you mean "until" there is no "until" point where he stopped being an obvious risk to Kyle and Kyle retreated... that's such an obvious case of self defence that you're utterly delusional to be arguing it.



Totally false, he literally threatened Kyle with a gun and then fired it behind him... how is that not a threat??? Trying to downplay that is an incredible attempt at a cope here. Also pointing out that Kyle pointed his rifle is really dumb in comparison - it again ignores context, namely that he was turning while in the process of fleeing for his life and after someone had just fired their gun behind him after having threatened him with it!

Secondly, the last person approached him with a gun and then pointed it at him.

So yes it's totally false - in order for it to not be you'd have to argue that threatening someone with a gun, then pursuing them then firing it behind them isn't a threat??? And also that pursuing them with a gun in hand, feigning a surrender then suddenly pointing it at them also isn't a threat...

I suspect the jury is going to be somewhat more grounded than you next week and conclude that those things are indeed threats.



Yes, and that's a moot point - as none of the others were chased then attacked or threatened.



Of course, he showed contrition, he had an AR15 pointed at him! Kyle shoots when he drops his hands from surrendering and proceeds to point at Kyle, he literally admitted to this in court, it's on video


At any point that Kyle felt even remotely threatened, he used deadly force.

Hardly "remotely", it's pretty clear cut in all the cases - someone literally drew a gun on him and then pursued and fired it behind him another with that person made explicit death threats and then chased after him and tried to grab his rifle. Another chased him with a mob of people out to get him and tried to stomp his head, he was attacked twice by the guy with the skateboard who also tried to grab his rifle and then lastly a guy approached with a gun, feigned a surrender then suddenly pointed it at Kyle... pretty clear lethal threat there.

In all those instances Kyle was the one retreating and they were the ones pursuing him then attacking or threatening.



So what? He was being attacked and he was retreating, you don't need to be a mind reader, he's able to testify (and did indeed do so) in court if people wanted to know his claimed thoughts, they aren't necessary though for a self-defence argument just the fact that he was attacked/threatened and he was retreating should be sufficient.

This nonsense about Kyle was the only one to shoot people, Kyle was the only one acting in a "contradictory manner" WTF does that even mean here? The fact is those were all reactions... they were the result of other people attacking, pursuing and threatening him.

As for contradictory manner - look at the actions of the last person shot, he literally feigned a "surrender" hands in the air then when Kyle lowered his rifle he suddenly makes a move... there were some pretty quick reactions there from Kyle to be fair.

Funnily enough, all the trouble makes who attacked him/pursued him have criminal records too - the first person he shot is a literal mental case who buggers small boys, the second person he shot has a history of kidnapping women and the third person he shot was carrying a gun illegally and has a criminal past too.

Earlier on you were trying to draw inferences from a small quote etc.. when there was literally video footage for you to watch, you've clearly not watched some of the footage in this case.



God, what a lot of tedious guff to go through (as usual)

Addressed none of my points and then you have just proceeded to run off a total word salad / gish gallop because you have no actual point to make or can't counter what i've said with anything useful.

Not sure why you are suddenly bringing up these people's criminal past when talking about Kyle's reactions to them in the moment. Kyle had no idea of their criminal past, so that is totally irrelevant.

(Also, i meant "conciliatory". Not sure why it ended up being contractionary. My bad. Not sure why you started going on about 'contradictory'. You could have just asked "did you mean to type contractionary or something else?")
 
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