Standard of driving in the UK going downhill.

Soldato
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Probably because they aren't expecting some tool to undertake them.
Exactly what I was getting at. I'd imagine the sort of person who just sits in lane 2 isn't the most the most observant of people which compounds the issue.

Another 800+ yards of wasted road capacity again this morning despite the "QUEUE IN BOTH LANES" signs because a hero in his 44T road block took it upon himself to enforce his distorted view of the highway code.
 
Man of Honour
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Exactly what I was getting at. I'd imagine the sort of person who just sits in lane 2 isn't the most the most observant of people which compounds the issue.

Another 800+ yards of wasted road capacity again this morning despite the "QUEUE IN BOTH LANES" signs because a hero in his 44T road block took it upon himself to enforce his distorted view of the highway code.

Many people, even if they would care, are not aware of the [relatively recent] update to rule 134.
 
Soldato
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Many people, even if they would care, are not aware of the [relatively recent] update to rule 134.

While that may be true, there are plenty of roads which have huge blue signs that say ‘queue in both lanes’ for as long as I can remember to help prevent traffic backing up into a major road behind.

There is one near me and most traffic still queues up in the left lane, spilling out onto one of the busiest duals carriageways in the country. The merge point is a good 1/4 mile down the road too.
 
Man of Honour
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Many people, even if they would care, are not aware of the [relatively recent] update to rule 134.

There is nothing recent about the concept of merge in turn. That it has been recently further clarified in the highway code doesn't excuse those who didn't bother previously and likely still don't bother now.
 
Man of Honour
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There is nothing recent about the concept of merge in turn. That it has been recently further clarified in the highway code doesn't excuse those who didn't bother previously and likely still don't bother now.

Until early 2000s it was a pretty alien concept in this country with vague guidance in the highway code - there was a whole debate about it in parliament in the late 90s.

Pretty much the whole of my parent's generation and older were taught to form a queue via handed down driving practises stemming out of the 50s when the highway code leant the other way.

Unlike many other updates to the highway code guidance on merge in turn was slipped in with less visible notice even for those who bother to keep abreast of updates (which I'm supposed to do because of my job) more recently - as I've posted before. Before that the wording was vague and with little explanation.

While that may be true, there are plenty of roads which have huge blue signs that say ‘queue in both lanes’ for as long as I can remember to help prevent traffic backing up into a major road behind.

There is one near me and most traffic still queues up in the left lane, spilling out onto one of the busiest duals carriageways in the country. The merge point is a good 1/4 mile down the road too.

Haven't seen that many of them - there are only 2 I can think of within ~30 miles of me but yeah people largely ignore them - but doesn't help at least the ones I've seen the signage is often close to the point of merging.
 
Associate
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Merge in turn is a much better system, but the main issue is that those who have queued in the open lane, in most cases, take mega offence at letting a person in.

Had a good case as an example early last week, was up in Stockton (North East) for work and was proceeding along a dual carriageway in the direction of Newcastle.

Having never been in the area before was unaware of the roadworks coming up ahead, eventually put two and two together once the signage became visible, and through force of habit in contrary to the merge in turn approach started to look for an opening in the open lane to move over in advance of the lane I was in closing - obviously every car was bumper to bumper and clearly standing their ground as to not let me in.

So, I had a choice, either creep really slowly while signalling and wait for a kind hearted person to let me in, or just proceed as far as I could and merge just before the closure, again with the hope that merge in turn would work. Other option was to stop completely in the open lane and just signal my intention, but obviously didn't do that due to the inherent danger, and potential to hold up people behind who were in the same lane.

Eventually got to the closure, was about to merge in safely (prob doing only 5-10mph at this point, so very slow), but the car I was going to merge I'm front of nailed the accelerator to prevent me and beeped the horn as they went past to make a point (basically how dare I try and push in).

For the record, in no way was I trying to push in, when the queue started had no idea what the cause was, and being unfamiliar with the area assumed it was a tailback for a bad right turn junction further on (I was going straight on so remained in the left lane - but as above this was closed further down the road, that became apparent once the roadworks signage appeared).
 
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Soldato
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Merge in turn is a much better system, but the main issue is that those who have queued in the open lane, in most cases, take mega offence at letting a person in.

Had a good case as an example early last week, was up in Stockton (North East) for work and was proceeding along a dual carriageway in the direction of Newcastle.

Having never been in the area before was unaware of the roadworks coming up ahead, eventually put two and two together once the signage became visible, and through force of habit in contrary to the merge in turn approach started to look for an opening in the open lane to move over in advance of the lane I was in closing - obviously every car was bumper to bumper and clearly standing their ground as to not let me in.

So, I had a choice, either creep really slowly while signalling and wait for a kind hearted person to let me in, or just proceed as far as I could and merge just before the closure, again with the hope that merge in turn would work. Other option was to stop completely in the open lane and just signal my intention, but obviously didn't do that due to the inherent danger, and potential to hold up people behind who were in the same lane.

Eventually got to the closure, was about to merge in safely (prob doing only 5-10mph at this point, so very slow), but the car I was going to merge I'm front of nailed the accelerator to prevent me and beeped the horn as they went past to make a point (basically how dare I try and push in).

For the record, in no way was I trying to push in, when the queue started had no idea what the cause was, and being unfamiliar with the area assumed it was a tailback for a bad right turn junction further on (I was going straight on so remained in the left lane - but as above this was closed further down the road, that became apparent once the roadworks signage appeared).
That's my worry when I driving through an area I'm not familiar with, especially if all signage is painted on the road which you can't see due to all the cars.
 
Soldato
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Merge in turn is a much better system, but the main issue is that those who have queued in the open lane, in most cases, take mega offence at letting a person in.

Had a good case as an example early last week, was up in Stockton (North East) for work and was proceeding along a dual carriageway in the direction of Newcastle.

Having never been in the area before was unaware of the roadworks coming up ahead, eventually put two and two together once the signage became visible, and through force of habit in contrary to the merge in turn approach started to look for an opening in the open lane to move over in advance of the lane I was in closing - obviously every car was bumper to bumper and clearly standing their ground as to not let me in.

So, I had a choice, either creep really slowly while signalling and wait for a kind hearted person to let me in, or just proceed as far as I could and merge just before the closure, again with the hope that merge in turn would work. Other option was to stop completely in the open lane and just signal my intention, but obviously didn't do that due to the inherent danger, and potential to hold up people behind who were in the same lane.

Eventually got to the closure, was about to merge in safely (prob doing only 5-10mph at this point, so very slow), but the car I was going to merge I'm front of nailed the accelerator to prevent me and beeped the horn as they went past to make a point (basically how dare I try and push in).

For the record, in no way was I trying to push in, when the queue started had no idea what the cause was, and being unfamiliar with the area assumed it was a tailback for a bad right turn junction further on (I was going straight on so remained in the left lane - but as above this was closed further down the road, that became apparent once the roadworks signage appeared).

There's a long standing MIT near mem has existed for years but people will still queue for miles rather than use both lanes and merge.

If you do then it's likely that some final campanologist will do this:

* You can stop watching at the 1:10 mark, nothing else happens *
 
Associate
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There's a long standing MIT near mem has existed for years but people will still queue for miles rather than use both lanes and merge.

If you do then it's likely that some final campanologist will do this:

* You can stop watching at the 1:10 mark, nothing else happens *

What a muppet, there really needs to be more education on MIT.
 
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Man of Honour
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There's a long standing MIT near mem has existed for years but people will still queue for miles rather than use both lanes and merge.

If you do then it's likely that some final campanologist will do this:

* You can stop watching at the 1:10 mark, nothing else happens *
Standard behaviour at the one just outside our office, every now and again I'll just sit behind them leaning on the horn.
 
Soldato
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I get that you're in the right legally, but morally I think its a bit grey. I really dislike merge in turn for that reason, I'm sure it's sometimes used as an excuse for poor road design.
 

mjt

mjt

Soldato
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There's a long standing MIT near mem has existed for years but people will still queue for miles rather than use both lanes and merge.

If you do then it's likely that some final campanologist will do this:

* You can stop watching at the 1:10 mark, nothing else happens *
I would’ve gone around them as soon as they had blocked the outside lane, just before the oncoming traffic. Yeah, there’s a solid line but **** ‘em.
 
Man of Honour
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I would’ve gone around them as soon as they had blocked the outside lane, just before the oncoming traffic. Yeah, there’s a solid line but **** ‘em.

Interesting grey area if your [immediate] forward progress after them isn't impeded then if they are stationary it isn't illegal. I'm not sure in this context it would go on your side though :s

I really hate this whole merge in turn thing though - it is one of those areas where no one takes ownership of bringing things to a conclusion, people obstinately holding out on points of principle about how people *should* do things, despite the whole thing being a bit of a mess, etc. (it has been debated in parliament, etc. several times over the years and no one wants to take it on - can find a few records of it on Hansard).

The fact is when most of the older generations learnt to drive there was no specific guidance and a general emphasis on forming an orderly queue unless directed otherwise by the police or some other person authorised to direct traffic. A generation or two after them would have learnt somewhat from their handed down knowledge.

Later the only guidance was along the lines of "In traffic hold-ups, keep in your own lane." (can't remember if that is the exact wording but pretty close).

Until the 1970s or so there wasn't the amount of dual-carriageways and so on there are today so the problems with merging traffic was less of a thing.

When I learnt to drive it had been updated to:

"You should follow the signs and road markings and get into lane as directed. In congested road conditions do not change lanes unnecessarily."


It was only in the early 2000s that merge in turn started to be explicitly mentioned in the highway code and later updated to:

"You should follow the signs and road markings and get into the lane as directed. In congested road conditions do not change lanes unnecessarily. Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed, e.g. when approaching road works or a road traffic incident. It is not recommended at high speed."


And most of the updates for it have had low visibility even for those who actively keep up on highway code updates - let alone those who don't bother.

And that is before considering whether people would even care if the current wording of section 134 of the highway code was known more widely - several surveys have found between 70 and 80% of drivers aren't aware.
 
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Soldato
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I had a guy in Ferrari 488 nearly ram me, with my family in the car, off the road at the weekend.
He was joining a dual carriageway, tailgating another car along the slip road and pulls out into me in lane 2. What a **** !!!
 

mjt

mjt

Soldato
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I had a guy in Ferrari 488 nearly ram me, with my family in the car, off the road at the weekend.
He was joining a dual carriageway, tailgating another car along the slip road and pulls out into me in lane 2. What a **** !!!
Saw a 2GC almost side-swipe a van in my rear view mirror on my way home from work this afternoon. People who swing into lane 2 when joining a motorway or dual carriageway without using mirrors or looking over their shoulders are idiots.
 
Soldato
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Saw a 2GC almost side-swipe a van in my rear view mirror on my way home from work this afternoon. People who swing into lane 2 when joining a motorway or dual carriageway without using mirrors or looking over their shoulders are idiots.
Sadly this person knew I was there but thought their acceleration could save the situation, but even that car can’t do 30-60mph in -0.5 seconds :rolleyes:
 
Soldato
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That's a lost passive safety design characteristic - they used to be able to look over their shoulder, to merge, but,
until materials science catches up they have a visibility reducing safety cage, & A/B pillar, with a blind spot gizmo.

Tailgaiting folks, and simultaneously pulling onto roundabout, nearside lanes, on the basis that the other person gave you a get out of jail card is frequent.
 
Man of Honour
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Had someone exiting a fuel station and wanting to go the opposite direction to me pull out about a quarter of the way into my lane and stop - can appreciate it is a difficult place to get out of rush hour as it is on a corner and traffic is often busy but still - I came to a stop because I wasn't sure what they were doing but being a wider road with plenty of space to pass them and a seeming solid line of traffic the other way I started to go again only for them to try and take a slight gap in the traffic the other way forcing me to have to brake moderately to avoid hitting them.

I'd have rather they just blocked the lane entirely if they were wanting to push out.
 
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