Poll: Brazilian Grand Prix 2021, São Paulo - Race 19

[HangTime]

They need to do something to do these silly fastest lap runs if they keep the point.

I was thinking about it yesterday and wondered if they should state the fastest lap point can only be claimed up until e.g. 5 laps (or whatever number) before the end of the race. That way you are still rewarded for a fast lap but you have to decide if you want to risk giving up the 25s or whatever to come and put with there still being a few laps to go, because even if you have a 30s gap to the next car, there's a chance you might lose the place, plus potentially backmarkers to factor in as well.

At the moment, the fastest lap point often seems to just be pot luck based on what track position is like heading into the final lap, e.g. you are out of the points so you just pit for fresh soft tyres, or you have a big enough gap to the next car that you can pit without losing points. Although obviously not every car/driver will be competitive enough to challenge for it anyway.

 

[SKILL]

Anyone heard any comment from Mercedes/Hamilton about them putting on a different set of tyres than he requested on his second pit stop? He moaned about it on team radio but not heard anything since, but I didn't watch the interviews etc after the race. Just wondering if it is one of those situations where in hindsight he will concede they may have made the correct call by giving him a harder tyre that would last to the end of the race despite him pushing a bit, or if he's still annoyed at not getting a medium.

This is assuming of course it wasn't some elaborate chirade for team radio to try and confuse RB.

During the race the commentators said the conversation continued on from what was broadcast, bascially Bono said how the mediums had worn quite heavily and it was a long sting and Hamilton accepted it...

I was kinda surprised they didn't go long and onto mediums but it all worked out

 

[Deleted member 651465]

I was thinking about it yesterday and wondered if they should state the fastest lap point can only be claimed up until e.g. 5 laps (or whatever number) before the end of the race. That way you are still rewarded for a fast lap but you have to decide if you want to risk giving up the 25s or whatever to come and put with there still being a few laps to go, because even if you have a 30s gap to the next car, there's a chance you might lose the place, plus potentially backmarkers to factor in as well.

At the moment, the fastest lap point often seems to just be pot luck based on what track position is like heading into the final lap, e.g. you are out of the points so you just pit for fresh soft tyres, or you have a big enough gap to the next car that you can pit without losing points. Although obviously not every car/driver will be competitive enough to challenge for it anyway.

I get what you’re saying but you are ultimately still gambling whenever you come in.

One day someone will pit for tyres in an attempt to set the fastest lap and there will be a race ending balls-up in the pits (Bottas in Monaco, for instance).

What I think they need to review is that drivers outside the top 10 can set a fastest lap and it robs the guy in P1, P2 etc the point. If you’re going to say that fastest lap points are only awarded to those in the top 10, you need to set it so that anyone setting fastest lap in P17 isn’t denying someone the point.

God forbid a driver’s title goes down to the wire and it’s decided because a junior team racing around a lap down nicks the fastest lap point from the chasing driver

 

[Jono8]

Just seen the footage of the Max/Ham thing.

How on earth was that not a penalty for Max. I know the FIA are dodgy and inconsistent, but come on!

 

[RobHu]

I disagree. Paul di Resta was saying at the time that they were watching Max's onboard until it cut away just before the incident/corner. How does a TV director pick his shot if they're not all transmitting to his vision mixer?

I'll repeat what I said earlier, my experience tells me that (1) the cameras are transmitting all the time, and (2) because of this, they will be recorded/backup-up somewhere outside of the car (i.e. not just on the camera itself). Also (3) Paul di Resta said they'd have to wait for the footage to be downloaded from the camera. So if I'm wrong about number 2 then at the very least we should have had that local footage retrieved by now. Therefore I am strongly of the opinion that the whole thing stinks.

So kind of embarrassing because I actually wrote the software they use (granted some years ago...my knowledge might be slightly out of date) but actually after thinking about it a bit more you are mostly correct. There are 2 feeds from each car (which may have more than 2 cameras but there's not frequencies for more to transmit simultaneously) that are transmitting all the time, BUT there are only a certain amount of broadcast slots available to the director. The footage from cameras that are transmitting but not in a broadcast slot is stored which is why you sometimes do see replays from other cameras during the race. In this case it must be that they either just didn't want the footage/VER had more than 2 cameras on his car meaning it wasn't available live if not transmitting at the time/some technical problem (they do happen unfortunately). I highly doubt anything dodgy is going on, F1 wants drama above all else.

 

[jaybee]

I agree about the fastest lap thing. I think it wasn't really thought through properly as it has become a cheap additional point for someone having a lonely race. A lottery. Doesn't really fit with "earning" points. Someone could even be sat in last place, and they get a point by playing the game. I think the whole idea should be scrapped to be honest. I hate the thought of a fastest lap robbing someone the championship who was not even involved in the title/constructor top spots. That's pretty lame.

The onboard footage of Max must have existed at some point on some storage media. I don't buy that it was never recorded.

 

[jaybee]

So kind of embarrassing because I actually wrote the software they use

I'd be interested to hear more. Do tell.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

They need to do something to do these silly fastest lap runs if they keep the point.

Agreed, it doesn’t really work in its current format. It was meant to stop those at the front cruising to victory at the end of the race, but it’s ended up being pot luck with minimal effort. It was much different for example when Hamilton was cruising at the end, but decides to go for it on his worn out hards. Pitting for the softest tire just isn’t exciting.

Just seen the footage of the Max/Ham thing.

How on earth was that not a penalty for Max. I know the FIA are dodgy and inconsistent, but come on!

Ridiculous to the extreme. We go through periods of enforcing them rule to the mm, but then leclerc does it in Italy and Max anywhere and the FIA just shrug and say ‘that’s racing for you’. It isn’t racing if you have to take avoiding action and are forced off the track because no one would ever be able to overtake doing that. You can also quite clearly see his front wheels not turning. I’m sorry, but Masi is absolutely useless, not just in terms of safety, but all other rules also.

It’s like watching 2007-10 or so when the FIA couldn’t be more anti Hamilton if they tried. And boy do they try.

 

[Plec]

Not that it's important but my daughter has just added an 'outlier' to the poll.

I read this thread rather than post as it would eat way too much of my time if I started posting regularly - slippery slope. But, my young daughter asked what I thought of the GP and asked if she could enter the vote. I said it was fantastic - the culmination of a great weekend/controversies/superb sprint race/bitch fits made for an ultimately gripping race (or a similar sentence that she interpreted that I really enjoyed it). So she cast the vote and using her reasoning gave it a #1 rating - hence the outlier.

If @EVH wants to change it to reflect my real view - feel free to change it to 9 or 10.

*And my rusty 2 cents: I'm desperate to see Max's onboard footage - but he has the seasoned experience to have 'maybe' feathered the brakes and get the same drift result due to the angle and speed he went into the corner rather than suspicious use of the wheel (maybe). Either way a great race and excellent race weekend - drama, controversy and great skill - plus onboard footage to come to make next race even more entertaining. (I'm fairly neutral on the incident as i grew up with Senna and Prost etc - and, quite rightly, racing has since been sanitised for safety reasons - but these incidents make racing/weekends, it's all part of the season as a whole - love it - even if it infuriates me at times. All part of F1...)

I'm just glad both teams are competitive with the added bonus of 2 talented drivers of the same calibre but at different stages of their career and legacy - so it's making for a much needed riveting season and I'm already looking forward to the next season (first time in years).

 

[Mr Jack]

Hamilton seems pretty chill about the battle with Max.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Hamilton seems pretty chill about the battle with Max.

Mind games. I half expected him to say that it was ‘easy’ or something along those lines. I guess he’s toned it down a notch than going that extreme. He also knows that he can now do the same. Weave all over the place, block the corners etc. Hopefully he qualifies and stays ahead of max on the remaining tracks. He needs to.

 

[sparkymark75]

I thought this was a reasonable take on it. The fact there are runoff areas also helps facilitate this kind of driving as there’s no risk of running into a barrier or gravel.

 

[woppy101]

He also knows that he can now do the same. Weave all over the place, block the corners etc. Hopefully he qualifies and stays ahead of max on the remaining tracks. He needs to.

Not a chance he would get away with that, the FIA would be absolutely desperate to give him a drive thru or stop go

 

[fez]

Always easy to stay chilled when you won the race.

 

[Steampunk]

Mind games. I half expected him to say that it was ‘easy’ or something along those lines. I guess he’s toned it down a notch than going that extreme. He also knows that he can now do the same. Weave all over the place, block the corners etc. Hopefully he qualifies and stays ahead of max on the remaining tracks. He needs to.

I really, really want Hamilton to win the championship, and then when he collects his trophy and does a little speech, I want him to thank Verstappen, Horner and Red Bull for making the season interesting, and then wish them luck for next time.

I think Max's head would explode.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

All kinds of interesting rumours doing the rounds about Mercedes. All unsourced of course. I quite liked this one:

Hywel Thomas, head of the Brixworth engines, has prepared a 5 engine for Lewis that must have a life of 2,500 km compared to the 7,000 that normally serve the resolution of a "standard" power unit. Not being able to change the characteristics of the homologated components of the engine, the engineers of the Star have worked to extremize the management strategies of this unit. In addition to pushing the turbo, they intervened on the pressure in the combustion chamber: creating a deadly combo that can be worth over 15 horsepower useful for the search for a pole position or the success of an overtaking.

This explains why Bottas took a new bike two weekends in a row. They were testing it, it worked, just look at his performance after his engine change. Now Mercedes is doing the same with Hamilton but even more extreme.

Expect Hamilton to do an engine change within 2 races. That 5 place penalty doesn't matter anyway. They can keep to do this because it's only a five place grid penalty. It only has a high cost because they need to make new engines.

Source: Italian Motorsport.com

Interesting if true and quite plausible, but of course this is one of loads of theories doing the rounds!

 

[Feek]

If @EVH wants to change it to reflect my real view - feel free to change it to 9 or 10.

Contrary to common belief, we can't manually edit the results in polls.

 

[RobHu]

I'd be interested to hear more. Do tell.

I can try to answer any questions if you want, but as evidenced by the previous post my memory isn't what it once was

 

[Plec]

Contrary to common belief, we can't manually edit the results in polls.

No belief, only mentioned if possible - but get the reasoning (no conspiracies here...)

 

[fez]

I thought this was a reasonable take on it. The fact there are runoff areas also helps facilitate this kind of driving as there’s no risk of running into a barrier or gravel.

Yeah, I'm quite frankly baffled how they came to the conclusion they did. If you can just let off the brakes to get ahead of another driver and completely miss the corner to keep a position then its madness. That opens up a whole can of worms.