Visa Debit Card

Soldato
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Maestro is the MasterCard version of Visa Electron, it’s basically a card for people with poor or no credit easing ability (e.g. kids and people will debts).
 
Soldato
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I don't think the embossed thing has actually really been used for yonks, due to the chip. I think it was only usefull for when the mag-strip got worn or corrupted. I suppose it makes the cards slighlty cheaper to manufacture too.

Mine is still embossed though, issued less than 12 month ago.

My mate has a debit card and it's not even contactless. I guess he must be an untrustworthy wrong 'un. ;)
 
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It's a bit bizarre how, despite high fees, these two companies basically have a duopoly? American Express is different because it's more of an "Exclusive club" card than a day to day card for most people. Just can't see how they manage to dominate the system. Surely some banks could club together and knock them out with a cheaper alternative?
 
Caporegime
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It's a fallback and is still needed in some parts of the world *looks at large parts of the USA*.

It's like the embossed numbers on the front, a lot of large chains will still have a click clack swipe machine somewhere, even if it's not been opened in years.

Something people tend to forget is that banking has a very long technological tail, and depending on where you are in the world different systems are in place, usually trying to retain at least secondary/backup method that might seem pointless.
so your average modern card has something like 4 different ways to read it, NFC, Chip (for chip and pin), magstripe for if the chip fails, and the embossed number for both over the phone use and if a store needs to fall back to an embossing machine.

About 4 years ago the then relatively new Boots Opticians in our town had to resort to the click clack machine because all their payment computers/readers were down, it was the first time i'd seen one used for 15 years or so, they had to get the box out and open it up as it was unused, and the older assistant took the time to demo it to the younger one who'd never seen one.

*the US still has massive numbers of magnetic readers and relatively low uptake of chip and pin, partly I suspect because the banks offload the risk to the customer over there a lot more than they can here.


Exactly, when we were in Vegas last (2018) they still used the magnetic strip a lot.
 
Soldato
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American Express is different because it's more of an "Exclusive club" card than a day to day card for most people. Just can't see how they manage to dominate the system.

Why? I have an Amex, I use it anywhere that will take it as my primary spending card. Amex then give me money back for privilege.
 
Soldato
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It's a bit bizarre how, despite high fees, these two companies basically have a duopoly? American Express is different because it's more of an "Exclusive club" card than a day to day card for most people. Just can't see how they manage to dominate the system. Surely some banks could club together and knock them out with a cheaper alternative?

Well it would probably need different banks than those that were partners of Visa and Mastercard.

The EU is trying to create its own due to in part lack of trust and reliance on the US, but predictably banks/companies don't want to invest it.

Amex isn't an exclusive club. It charges higher fee for processing payment hence isn't anywhere near as widely accepted, and can incur additional charges when it is used.
 
Soldato
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Why? I have an Amex, I use it anywhere that will take it as my primary spending card. Amex then give me money back for privilege.

Well it would probably need different banks than those that were partners of Visa and Mastercard.

The EU is trying to create its own due to in part lack of trust and reliance on the US, but predictably banks/companies don't want to invest it.

Amex isn't an exclusive club. It charges higher fee for processing payment hence isn't anywhere near as widely accepted, and can incur additional charges when it is used.


I worded that badly, what I mean is Amex is associated with paid bank accounts with premium features, and is less widely used. Hence "exclusive" in the sense of they are marketing only to middle class and above whereas Visa/Mastercard market across all sectors.
 
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[..] But why? To date I have not heard a single logical reason as to why people avoid contactless. Why add more steps to a process when you can save time!

Better security, obviously. An on demand broadcast system that can be undetectably read by any suitable scanner over a significant range is a security weakness. You regard that constant reduction in security as a worthwhile price for saving maybe 20 seconds when you buy something. Some people draw the security/convenience line differently.
 

mrk

mrk

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Better security, obviously. An on demand broadcast system that can be undetectably read by any suitable scanner over a significant range is a security weakness.

Is there any direct study and citation for this to be an accurate statement though? I work in technology and have done since 2006 and for 8 years dealt with direct retail card machines (buying then, installing then, assigning them etc) within the ferry industry, so an area where scammed cards you'd think would be rife but this was not the case at all and in all examples of card fraud they were of cards being physically stolen and used rather than contactless being exploited.

A physical card's contactless range is so small that it would be impossible for a card to be "read" by a drive-by scanner anyway unless someone puts their card in a shirt pocket or trouser pocket and lets someone with a reader brush past them at such a close distance that you literally have to be blind to not see them, and they'd also need to know you have the card in the pocket on its own otherwise it's not even worth attempting.

Likewise mobile phone contactless is even more secure, you cannot make a contactless payment without unlocking the device first. The exception is if you set up a Transport Card function to a particular card so then card swipe through tube stations etc without even waking the screen. But this only works for transport card readers and your phone has to be stolen...

This excuse of reduced security is a total non issue blown out of proportion for a short period of time which people seem to still latch onto.
 
Soldato
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Surely some banks could club together and knock them out with a cheaper alternative?
The separation of scheme and process made this possibly, I believe because the EU was insistent the market should be opened up to other players more easily. However it's kinda hard to break into, considering the number of transactions, uptime, speed of transactions etc. The stats for processing are incredible. I can't see a startup even with EU/banks backing it, getting anywhere fast. They are trying though.
 
Soldato
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Surely some banks could club together and knock them out with a cheaper alternative?

As I understand it, this is effectively what VISA was in Europe until recently - it was the act of VISA 'Group' buying VISA Europe from the banks that resulted in MasterCard getting a look in on debit cards now - because they no longer had the incentive to effectively default to using VISA.
 
Soldato
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I think the only time I've paid by card and they made a carbon copy was on a ferry, must have been at least 5 years ago though. Not sure if it was because they normally had an Internet connection that had gone down or something, but I presume by now they must have more reliable systems in most places, at least in the UK.
 
Commissario
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In fact you'll find that in some places in Germany but particularly Netherlands and its territories, they won't accept Visa and Mastercard, only Maestro. Was real pain during my time in Bonaire.

Yes. This happened to me in Gutersloh. I went into a restaurant and asked if they took card. I was told yes. Had my meal, tried to pay with a company Visa and they refused it. Tried to pay with my own Mastercard and they refused it. The cards they accepted were those drawn on German banks only!
 
Soldato
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Yeah, when I lived in Germany in the early/mid 2000s, pretty much no shops took VISA or Mastercard, it was all 'EC-Karte' debit cards from the German banks (now called Girocard apparently).

It was pretty annoying when I came back to visit the UK as well and didn't have a VISA or Mastercard to use here.
 
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Is there any direct study and citation for this to be an accurate statement though? I work in technology and have done since 2006 and for 8 years dealt with direct retail card machines (buying then, installing then, assigning them etc) within the ferry industry, so an area where scammed cards you'd think would be rife but this was not the case at all and in all examples of card fraud they were of cards being physically stolen and used rather than contactless being exploited.

A physical card's contactless range is so small that it would be impossible for a card to be "read" by a drive-by scanner anyway unless someone puts their card in a shirt pocket or trouser pocket and lets someone with a reader brush past them at such a close distance that you literally have to be blind to not see them, and they'd also need to know you have the card in the pocket on its own otherwise it's not even worth attempting.

With a good enough scanner the range is large enough to, for example, farm details from passersby while sitting on a bench at a train station. Literal blindness is not required. It doesn't matter if people see you. It matters if they notice you and suspect you.

Likewise mobile phone contactless is even more secure, you cannot make a contactless payment without unlocking the device first. The exception is if you set up a Transport Card function to a particular card so then card swipe through tube stations etc without even waking the screen. But this only works for transport card readers and your phone has to be stolen...

Not at all likewise. It's completely different because the transmission is initiated by and powered by the phone rather than the scanner and (as you say yourself) in almost all situations it has built in 2FA (possession and unlocking).

This excuse of reduced security is a total non issue blown out of proportion for a short period of time which people seem to still latch onto.

Maybe, but it's an answer to the question asked - why people avoid contactless. Maybe it's blown out of proportion. But so is saving maybe 20 seconds when buying something, which is what you're putting forward as being overwhelmingly more important than reduced security.

Then, of course, there's the much simpler reduction in security caused by the fact that contactless cards require only possession of the card for payments under £45. If someone steals my card, they could probably get away with stealing hundreds of pounds at <£45 each time. A serious thief wouldn't bother but casual thieves might.

Personally, I use a contactless card because I couldn't be bothered with the fuss required to get one that isn't. I don't consider the reduction in security significant enough to care about. But I understand why some people do.
 
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