Electric scooters and the law

[SexyGreyFox]

Nonsense, it's your after 12 months and you save 32-42% via salary sacrifice.

Mine wasn't, it took 4 years to be mine and I had to pay a keepers fee at the end of it, in total I saved £80 on an £800 bike.
Things may have changed now though.
When I came to buy my second bike on C2W (an £800 eBike) the shop knocked me £100 off and loads of free gifts if I didn't go through C2W, so I paid cash and it was mine that day.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

You’ll pay RRP through cycle to work as the scheme provider takes 13% or something daft like that.

The bike technically isn’t yours and you have to pay 10% of the bikes value after the initial rental* to keep it for a further couple of years. After that period has passed it’s legally then yours.

That said, you’ll still save money and a high rate tax payer will save significantly. While the bike technically isn’t yours initially, no one checks you still have it, actually ride it to work or is bothered by it in any way shape or form. But if you loose it, it’s stolen etc. you are legally responsible and still have to pay it in full or replace it and hand it back.

*Note I used the term rental there because technically that is what it is.

Edit: the one thing to watch out with salary sacrifice is that is obviously reduces your pension contributions and your overall pension pot. That obviously has a cost but it isn’t cash now so it’s hard to measure it’s effect.

 

[Delvis]

Don't do this!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-birmingham-58360501

And this is where GPS comes in. The rentals I used abroad you need your GPS on (so you can't abandon the bike without logging out/parking)...They can easily setup up geolocation crap and make the scooter useless.

 

[Demon]

Cycle to work schemes are variable,

There are two main factors
1. Finance, someone has to pay for the bike up-front, a good scheme would build that in as you are paying RRP which gives them enough overhead to finance it for 'free'.. The poorer schemes will have quite a hefty charge for finance which comes off your savings.
2. NI Contribution reduction, this is down to the company, they can take that off the monthly cost of the bike (effectively giving it to you), or they may pocket it, or use that to pay for the finance to buy the bikes upfront.

Then the law changed in terms of how the bikes are 'transferred' to you after the end of the scheme, effectively the longer you own it, the lower the residual value, I think after 3-4 years that's effectively nothing, or a token fee (I can't remember the exact terms). Some schemes push things and will effectively give the bike to you after 12 months (maybe at a single months final payment) but they are administratively keeping that bike on their system and automatically writing it off 3 or so years later.

My first Scheme was ace, as a high rate tax payer I managed to persuade the scheme to let me have a Cannondale Rush 6 mountain bike for £1000 (RRP was £1400 but it was an end of year sale), I only paid £583 for it (that's tax saved and NI contributions), the company financed the bikes for free and passed on maximum savings, it was definitely worth it then.. However 2 years later some company came in and showed them how the company could make money out of the scheme, and that was it, the next bike I went to get was £1000 and effectively it would cost me £832.. I queried this with the Scheme provider and the very nice person in their customer services let me in on how it worked, our company was pocketing the NI contributions and adding a 14.9% APR finance fee on top, to which they got a kick back from the company because buying a bike at RRP obviously maximises their profit as well and offered 'incentives' to the company for each bike sold.. I made sure everyone was made aware of this in work and oddly that scheme got shut down 12 months later due to poor take up..

 

[Lmg80]

As an update, my new D2S is awesome. I'm pretty fit, so laziness aside I go running circa 5 times a week so the electric option was purely from a speedier commute back to my car to then drive home to spend what time left in the day with my family.
I did a 12 mile ride yesterday, 6 miles purely on legs alone and then home I confess I used it on the hills and giggles.
Whilst it's not a rocket ship due to the law prohibiting it from going north of 15.5mph, it's effortless when used.
It has a twist and go option (non legal twist only) that when combined with pedalling and twist sees it hit the max speed.
The only negative is it weights more than I expect from a aluminium alloy frame, but that's only a real concern 'if' I'm left short on power.

 

[Rroff]

Dunno if the same people but twice in the last few weeks driving the same road at about the same time of night I've had two lads in their 20s think it amusing to ride down the road in front of me weaving back and forth, slowing right down at times in a taunting manner and trying to block me overtaking them, etc. and a few months back I think the same lads on bikes. Maybe couple of innocent unrelated people but my guess is someone saw red or didn't anticipate them pulling across the road when trying to overtake.

https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/two-men-suffer-significant-injuries-5998619

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I can’t comment on the article but isn’t issue you encountered @Rroff just the usual idiots doing their usual anti social behaviour with little repercussions or consequences. It’s not really got anything to do with escooters themselves.

 

[Hotwired]

Escooters enable anyone however this also extends to scrotes being enabled to play in the road with no real exertion when traditionally this would require a pushbike, skateboard or good old feet.

All you need is some pocket change to unlock a rental escooter and all set to screw with traffic.

 

[Joeyuk]

I don’t like them at all. Their a menace on the pavements and have nearly been taken out by a few when on my round. The ones that use the road are better but some just don’t know/obey the rules of the road.

 

[Rroff]

I can’t comment on the article but isn’t issue you encountered @Rroff just the usual idiots doing their usual anti social behaviour with little repercussions or consequences. It’s not really got anything to do with escooters themselves.

Wasn't worth starting another thread for. As mentioned I've seen the same lads doing it on BMX type bikes as well.

 

[jpaul]

last week example of escooter risk perception in young adults - 2 on one scooter, one died - the survivor seemed blase its only now i know this stuff .. use of the word passed.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-58713968

legitimate use went up - theorized due to fuel shortage https://live-feeds.com/the-fuel-crisis-in-britain-pushes-the-use-of-scooters/

 

[Hotwired]

"Continue to be illegal"

A UK electric scooter seller is such a 2 faced business model.

Get ready for a smooth ride around town on this brand new little speedster!

and just below...

It is illegal to ride electric scooters on public roads, pavements, or cycle paths.

Yeah that privately owned town... narrows it down to Prince Charles driving one around Poundbury?

 

[Blackjack Davy]

"Continue to be illegal" while no-one gives a toss and they continue to be ridden everywhere by everyone with impunity. Welcome to Britain 2021.

 

[Bug One]

People continue to drive at 80 on the motorway too.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

People continue to drive at 80 on the motorway too.

Absolutely but on GMB the other day they had a bloke called Dr Scooter who is making a fortune and he says he has signs in his shops and the staff have to tell people about the law.
Compare that to the wall of text we had earlier and they were giving examples of where to use them like going to Uni, visiting your girlfriend etc.
Nowhere in that sales article did it say it was illegal until you clicked on a link.

 

[Surveyor]

"Continue to be illegal" while no-one gives a toss and they continue to be ridden everywhere by everyone with impunity. Welcome to Britain 2021.

Not entirely with impunity.

E-scooters: Greater Manchester Police seizures 'show scale of problem'

Almost 150 e-scooters were seized by Greater Manchester Police in the last 12 months for being ridden illegally or for being involved in a crash, the force has said.

E-scooters in London: Met Police warn retailers not to exploit customers at Christmas

Police have accused retailers of selling private e-scooters without making customers fully aware they cannot legally be used on public land.

The Met said 3,637 e-scooters have been seized by police in London this year.

People continue to drive at 80 on the motorway too.

What of it? Two wrongs don't make a right and this thread is about e-scooters and the law.

 

[Rroff]

Yeah that privately owned town... narrows it down to Prince Charles driving one around Poundbury?

You jest - but I found the other day there is a privately owned mini-town, technically a village I guess but it has all the trappings of a town in miniature, a few miles up the road from me. Tucked away in the country side 15-20 houses on a network of private roads with their own amenities, etc. for the well off.

 

[Scam]

Does anyone actually use the rental ones, particular around London? We've moved a bit further from our main town centre so is about a 20-25min walk. Absolutely don't mind doing it there and back but we walk past a whole host of the Dot, Lime etc ones practically on our way and I keep thinking for the sake of a £1 or so I could be home in 5mins. It's a fairly easy ride too, mostly suburban/residential streets. Never been brave enough though

 

[Blackjack Davy]

I've never ever seen a rental one or even a rental scheme, they still manage to be everywhere here though.

 

[Diddums]

Does anyone actually use the rental ones, particular around London? We've moved a bit further from our main town centre so is about a 20-25min walk. Absolutely don't mind doing it there and back but we walk past a whole host of the Dot, Lime etc ones practically on our way and I keep thinking for the sake of a £1 or so I could be home in 5mins. It's a fairly easy ride too, mostly suburban/residential streets. Never been brave enough though

Loads of them in London, they're dangerously slow though.