Tories lost the 2019 election among working age adults

Soldato
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One thing that worries me is the country being forced into more tax rises. We are already at record levels of tax and in the past this has triggered a brain drain where many people (including members of my family) left the country. The constant focus on retired voters and ignoring the working voters is dangerous. With labour traditionally focusing on the lower earners in society that has left a dangerous middle and higher earner chasm where pretty much all taxes are paid. It’s the one thing that would end my want to work in the UK. It’s already unbearably high amounts of tax vs other countries (not all obviously as there are many that are higher than the UK).
lol
 
Soldato
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What you are descibing is the frog and the scorpion tale. With people like you thinking the only way forward is to be the scorpion.

Well to take it to that binary level yes. But I'd say more that humanity is the frog and economics (historically) is the scorpion. The economy is something that stings hard with no warning but we still have faith that it will not **** us over.
 
Soldato
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Don’t worry it’s already on the cards. Got a few years before it happens but it will. :rolleyes:

It will, but they also need to alter the tax brackets with the average wage creeping ever closer to that 40% bracket. Same with the tax free allowance - I think that should be raised to the level of minimum wage (16.5k?) finding who to make pay for it though...
 
Soldato
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He meant him leaving because he cant live the life he wants on the miniscule amount of money he gets to keep after taxes and loopholes.
I don’t use any loopholes to avoid tax. All mine goes through PAYE and I’m not self employed/contracting.
Yea, and he'll find the same or worse will happen in other places he scurries to...
Not really. I’ve an S.Korea option on the cards and can opt to pay a flat 19% tax. You can’t really go wrong with Canada, USA, Switzerland (except this one is expensive to live) or most places outside of Europe.
 
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Caporegime
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One thing that worries me is the country being forced into more tax rises. We are already at record levels of tax and in the past this has triggered a brain drain where many people (including members of my family) left the country. The constant focus on retired voters and ignoring the working voters is dangerous. With labour traditionally focusing on the lower earners in society that has left a dangerous middle and higher earner chasm where pretty much all taxes are paid. It’s the one thing that would end my want to work in the UK. It’s already unbearably high amounts of tax vs other countries (not all obviously as there are many that are higher than the UK).
The problem isn't the amount of tax. I'd gladly pay more tax for a better society. And as you say, we're by far not the highest taxed people in Europe.

The problem is that under the current govt, there is no trust that your tax won't find it's way to Boris's mates, or simply be used to subsidise the already wealthy (corporations or individuals).

If the tax was spent to benefit society as a whole (and no, "trickle-down" economics is not the answer) then there would be more incentive to pay it. Well, for some of us, anyhow.

There is also the "I'm alright, Jack" mentality and "society is a pyramid, don't be at the bottom" mentality of the many of the general populace to overcome. There has to be a much more enlightened attitude towards our fellow man.
 
Soldato
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These days you can borrow 4.5 - 5x joint income. This means if you are single, like me, then you are boned as you can’t compete unless you’re on 60k+.

I have single friends who would disagree with this. I appreciate some areas cost more then others though - which may limit choices locally.
 
Caporegime
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I have single friends who would disagree with this. I appreciate some areas cost more then others though - which may limit choices locally.
The houses round my way are £260 - £300k ish. Not mansions, regular terraced houses. I can borrow about £80k in mortgage.

Hold on whilst I save a £200k "deposit" :p

Housing here is so far out of reach of ordinary workers that there's almost no point in even thinking about it.

Perversely, at the same time, rent in my area is >75% of your average worker's pay.

This is a recipe for true hand-to-mouth living. The answer can't be for everyone here to move up country. Well, it's not realistic.
 
Caporegime
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Norrbotten, Sweden.
The houses round my way are £260 - £300k ish. Not mansions, regular terraced houses. I can borrow about £80k in mortgage.

Hold on whilst I save a £200k "deposit" :p

Housing here is so far out of reach of ordinary workers that there's almost no point in even thinking about it.

Perversely, at the same time, rent in my area is >75% of your average worker's pay.

This is a recipe for true hand-to-mouth living. The answer can't be for everyone here to move up country. Well, it's not realistic.


Cant you get together with 3 friends and rent? Meet a nice girl/boy/furry and split the costs.
Yes you should be able to afford a place to "live" but buy? Why?
I've come across a bit of a fascist in this discussion of late but honestly people need to set their goals to meet their means.

Or

Smash the system, live in shipping containers and eat the bugs. Thats the future.

Why do single people need bigger than 1 bedroom flats or houses?
 
Man of Honour
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Given Cornwall's lower than average unemployment rate, it's not like the workers aren't needed there anyway.

The problem is the average wage in Cornwall is low, and much of the work is seasonal.

Cornwall Average salary and unemployment rates in graphs and numbers. (plumplot.co.uk)

There has been some recent movement upwards, but it's due to people moving there with remote working jobs as the requirement to attend offices reduces, and doesn't help lifelong locals who don't have the relevant experience to obtain that sort of role.

What drives the prices up in Cornwall, as opposed to parts of wales or the north east with similar demographics, is the desire of people who have already established themselves employment or finance wise to move there, effectively people who either don't need jobs, or have jobs they can continue doing after moving (or are willing to commute and stay elsewhere during the week, while the family live in cornwall and is only fully together at weekends). Limited well paid employment opportunities, combined with poor transport links (especially in the tourist season) and a great reluctance to move anywhere else (suggesting moving to Devon can get you lynched, never mind further afield) for opportunities, and you have a recipe for unhappiness.

Edit: swapped the stats source for a more recent one.
 
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Soldato
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drives the prices up in Cornwall, as opposed to parts of wales or the north east with similar demographics, is the desire of people who have already established themselves employment or finance wise to move there, effectively people who either don't need jobs, or have jobs they can continue doing after moving (or are willing to commute and stay elsewhere during the week, while the family live in cornwall and is only fully together at weekends
This is just a condensed version of the story throughout much of Britain.

People with means out competing those without and pushing up prices. You quite notably missed out the buy to let market, which is a particular issue in Cornwall but is a problem for much of the rest of the country.
 
Man of Honour
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Plymouth
This is just a condensed version of the story throughout much of Britain.

People with means out competing those without and pushing up prices. You quite notably missed out the buy to let market, which is a particular issue in Cornwall but is a problem for much of the rest of the country.

I missed it out because it's irrelevant as I've said many times. Buy to let doesn't create higher overall accommodation (i.e. the purchase and rental market combined) prices, it becomes more attractive where overall accommodation prices are relatively high due to constrained supply.

2nd homes/holiday homes is much bigger problem, as these do create higher overall accommodation prices by reducing available supply for day to day accommodation. But dealing with that without damaging the tourist market on which the area
 
Soldato
OP
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I missed it out because it's irrelevant as I've said many times. Buy to let doesn't create higher overall accommodation (i.e. the purchase and rental market combined) prices
Yes it does.

More demand in the buying market pushes prices up: I'm sure you won't dispute this.

Renting is a substitute good vs buying: higher buying prices mean the rental market can sustain higher prices.

It's simple stuff, but you've got to join the dots.
 
Soldato
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Yes it does.

More demand in the buying market pushes prices up: I'm sure you won't dispute this.

Renting is a substitute good vs buying: higher buying prices mean the rental market can sustain higher prices.

It's simple stuff, but you've got to join the dots.

BTL also tends to remove the bottom rung of the housing ladder so exacerbates the issues for younger or lower paid people.
 
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