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- Thread starter Will Gill
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Soldato
Just a couple of Bentley's
Soldato
Mint Subaru Legacy, anyone? It’s going free, just sat in a Tesco car park for a few months. Find it odd that they haven’t done anything about it tbh.
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Quite morbid but this happened all over New York rail stations/airports post 9/11
Quite morbid but this happened all over New York rail stations/airports post 9/11
Happened in Dubai too when the gov cracked down on all the shady tax shenanigans going on.
I bet that Subaru would fire right up and drive you to Cape Town if you wanted it to though, those things are tanks.
Permabanned
Ran up into the mountains with a real cryptolambo yesterday haha
Soldato
Not worth its own thread really and this seems as good a place as any!
I took this out for a drive the other day:
I've spent the last 2-3 months agonising over buying a GT car. I'm massively conflicted on exactly what I want from a car, but broadly I want something that is able to take the mrs and I to anywhere in continental Europe in relative comfort but also be able to enjoy the best roads that Europe has to offer when I get there. The M5 was utterly brilliant on motorways and fast A-roads but as things start to tighten it became less brilliant. Not to the point of annoyance as such but you're aware you're managing the weight and the brakes more than you're enjoying the scenery. Doing a full day of B-road driving in it was draining in ways that the M2 wasn't.
I've discounted the Bentley Continental GT for the same reasons as the M5 - undoubtedly the best way to get from A to B along motorways but it weighs about the same as the QE2 and feels about as agile. I gave serious consideration to the DB11 AMR and new Vantage - the latter is surprisingly capacious when it comes to luggage and while it is very sporty it isn't as draining on long drives as you might expect. I also looked at the Ferrari California T after deciding there was simply no way I wanted to actually own the car which originally started this whole thing, the 599. For me the 599 was simply too big, too old, too mental to run. The Cali T Handling Speciale is a nice car, looks ace in the right colour and sounds good. But the interior felt... flimsy? Gorgeous material quality in terms of tactility but I couldn't help but feel like the perceived quality was really poor. You'd be alright if the car was £50k but at well over twice that, it wasn't good enough and the rest of the package didn't make up for it.
So, I'd got to the point where I'd more or less decided on the DB11 and accepted that it is dynamically compromised (but not enough and not in the same way as the M5 to put me off) when I happened across a review of the McLaren 570GT. After some digging around, chatting to a few people and so on I arranged to pop into McLaren and explore the new McLaren GT...
I've got to be honest, I didn't really know what I was expecting. Immediately, it is a LOT smaller in person than it looks in photos. Yes, it is bigger than any other McLaren and a lot less shrink-wrapped/taut but I don't think that is a negative thing, personally. The ride is surreal - at least as good as my Range Rover's air suspension and miles better than the M5 although it is inescapably much more noisy than any other car I've considered. Not too noisy, but noisy nevertheless. This is without the 720S's linked dampers etc. Performance is what it is, 611bhp from what is essentially a detuned 720S engine. Certainly would have the legs on the DB11 AMR pretty much from any speed to any speed but only if you were in the right gear. Catch it off guard and in too high a gear and there's one, maybe two eternities of waiting for it to wake up. Cornering is predictably on another level meaning overall performance is a stratosphere above the DB11. Interior fit and finish I would put above both the DB11 and Cali T but nowhere near the Conti GT. Luggage space is actually pretty impressive. I had my doubts but it is usable and I could easily fit luggage for two for two weeks in it without feeling packed in. 150L in the frunk, ~400L in the back although the shape is awkward. Using soft luggage and packing smart you could probably do an even longer trip.
In many ways it is just another McLaren with the edges rounded off but, while there is no way I'd want to buy a 720S for what I want from a car, this ticks every box. Am I going to buy one? Watch this space!
I took this out for a drive the other day:
I've spent the last 2-3 months agonising over buying a GT car. I'm massively conflicted on exactly what I want from a car, but broadly I want something that is able to take the mrs and I to anywhere in continental Europe in relative comfort but also be able to enjoy the best roads that Europe has to offer when I get there. The M5 was utterly brilliant on motorways and fast A-roads but as things start to tighten it became less brilliant. Not to the point of annoyance as such but you're aware you're managing the weight and the brakes more than you're enjoying the scenery. Doing a full day of B-road driving in it was draining in ways that the M2 wasn't.
I've discounted the Bentley Continental GT for the same reasons as the M5 - undoubtedly the best way to get from A to B along motorways but it weighs about the same as the QE2 and feels about as agile. I gave serious consideration to the DB11 AMR and new Vantage - the latter is surprisingly capacious when it comes to luggage and while it is very sporty it isn't as draining on long drives as you might expect. I also looked at the Ferrari California T after deciding there was simply no way I wanted to actually own the car which originally started this whole thing, the 599. For me the 599 was simply too big, too old, too mental to run. The Cali T Handling Speciale is a nice car, looks ace in the right colour and sounds good. But the interior felt... flimsy? Gorgeous material quality in terms of tactility but I couldn't help but feel like the perceived quality was really poor. You'd be alright if the car was £50k but at well over twice that, it wasn't good enough and the rest of the package didn't make up for it.
So, I'd got to the point where I'd more or less decided on the DB11 and accepted that it is dynamically compromised (but not enough and not in the same way as the M5 to put me off) when I happened across a review of the McLaren 570GT. After some digging around, chatting to a few people and so on I arranged to pop into McLaren and explore the new McLaren GT...
I've got to be honest, I didn't really know what I was expecting. Immediately, it is a LOT smaller in person than it looks in photos. Yes, it is bigger than any other McLaren and a lot less shrink-wrapped/taut but I don't think that is a negative thing, personally. The ride is surreal - at least as good as my Range Rover's air suspension and miles better than the M5 although it is inescapably much more noisy than any other car I've considered. Not too noisy, but noisy nevertheless. This is without the 720S's linked dampers etc. Performance is what it is, 611bhp from what is essentially a detuned 720S engine. Certainly would have the legs on the DB11 AMR pretty much from any speed to any speed but only if you were in the right gear. Catch it off guard and in too high a gear and there's one, maybe two eternities of waiting for it to wake up. Cornering is predictably on another level meaning overall performance is a stratosphere above the DB11. Interior fit and finish I would put above both the DB11 and Cali T but nowhere near the Conti GT. Luggage space is actually pretty impressive. I had my doubts but it is usable and I could easily fit luggage for two for two weeks in it without feeling packed in. 150L in the frunk, ~400L in the back although the shape is awkward. Using soft luggage and packing smart you could probably do an even longer trip.
In many ways it is just another McLaren with the edges rounded off but, while there is no way I'd want to buy a 720S for what I want from a car, this ticks every box. Am I going to buy one? Watch this space!
Don
Luggage space on those is attractive.
Underboss
the Engine is probably the only thing left on that car thats good
just need lots of T-Cut for the rest of it though and it will look and feel new again
Odd, its been taxed for a another year !
Permabanned
Not worth its own thread really and this seems as good a place as any!
I took this out for a drive the other day:
I've spent the last 2-3 months agonising over buying a GT car. I'm massively conflicted on exactly what I want from a car, but broadly I want something that is able to take the mrs and I to anywhere in continental Europe in relative comfort but also be able to enjoy the best roads that Europe has to offer when I get there. The M5 was utterly brilliant on motorways and fast A-roads but as things start to tighten it became less brilliant. Not to the point of annoyance as such but you're aware you're managing the weight and the brakes more than you're enjoying the scenery. Doing a full day of B-road driving in it was draining in ways that the M2 wasn't.
I've discounted the Bentley Continental GT for the same reasons as the M5 - undoubtedly the best way to get from A to B along motorways but it weighs about the same as the QE2 and feels about as agile. I gave serious consideration to the DB11 AMR and new Vantage - the latter is surprisingly capacious when it comes to luggage and while it is very sporty it isn't as draining on long drives as you might expect. I also looked at the Ferrari California T after deciding there was simply no way I wanted to actually own the car which originally started this whole thing, the 599. For me the 599 was simply too big, too old, too mental to run. The Cali T Handling Speciale is a nice car, looks ace in the right colour and sounds good. But the interior felt... flimsy? Gorgeous material quality in terms of tactility but I couldn't help but feel like the perceived quality was really poor. You'd be alright if the car was £50k but at well over twice that, it wasn't good enough and the rest of the package didn't make up for it.
So, I'd got to the point where I'd more or less decided on the DB11 and accepted that it is dynamically compromised (but not enough and not in the same way as the M5 to put me off) when I happened across a review of the McLaren 570GT. After some digging around, chatting to a few people and so on I arranged to pop into McLaren and explore the new McLaren GT...
I've got to be honest, I didn't really know what I was expecting. Immediately, it is a LOT smaller in person than it looks in photos. Yes, it is bigger than any other McLaren and a lot less shrink-wrapped/taut but I don't think that is a negative thing, personally. The ride is surreal - at least as good as my Range Rover's air suspension and miles better than the M5 although it is inescapably much more noisy than any other car I've considered. Not too noisy, but noisy nevertheless. This is without the 720S's linked dampers etc. Performance is what it is, 611bhp from what is essentially a detuned 720S engine. Certainly would have the legs on the DB11 AMR pretty much from any speed to any speed but only if you were in the right gear. Catch it off guard and in too high a gear and there's one, maybe two eternities of waiting for it to wake up. Cornering is predictably on another level meaning overall performance is a stratosphere above the DB11. Interior fit and finish I would put above both the DB11 and Cali T but nowhere near the Conti GT. Luggage space is actually pretty impressive. I had my doubts but it is usable and I could easily fit luggage for two for two weeks in it without feeling packed in. 150L in the frunk, ~400L in the back although the shape is awkward. Using soft luggage and packing smart you could probably do an even longer trip.
In many ways it is just another McLaren with the edges rounded off but, while there is no way I'd want to buy a 720S for what I want from a car, this ticks every box. Am I going to buy one? Watch this space!
Nope... 720S
Soldato
Easy to just throw out a quip but the 720S could not do the job of a two week road trip around Europe for me. I don't mean driving to a single hotel somewhere and then short jaunts out, I mean a proper trip in a different hotel each night etc. I'm not looking for a super-focussed sports/supercar, I am looking for a GT that doesn't disappoint when off the motorway. Of all of the cars I have considered, the McLaren GT is the most exciting with some significant but acceptable compromises on the motorway side of things.
Oh, and I don't give a stuff about what the puritanical McLaren fanboi brigade think of the GT either, I'm buying a car for me and what I need and nobody else
Permabanned
Easy to just throw out a quip but the 720S could not do the job of a two week road trip around Europe for me. I don't mean driving to a single hotel somewhere and then short jaunts out, I mean a proper trip in a different hotel each night etc. I'm not looking for a super-focussed sports/supercar, I am looking for a GT that doesn't disappoint when off the motorway. Of all of the cars I have considered, the McLaren GT is the most exciting with some significant but acceptable compromises on the motorway side of things.
Oh, and I don't give a stuff about what the puritanical McLaren fanboi brigade think of the GT either, I'm buying a car for me and what I need and nobody else
I see… you haven’t driven a 720S or tried fitting suitcases.
It fits 2 carry ons in the front and a large bag on the shelf behind the seats… more than enough for 2 weeks for 2 people, as I did many times over the 30,000km I did in mine.
It’s more comfortable in comfort mode than most GT cars on the market… save for a Bentley or Rolls.
Then it excels in all other areas too.
Given the price points of used models, it doesn’t make any sense to buy a GT over a lightly used 720S. For YOU or anyone else.
Soldato
I now see the type of poster you are. While there's basically no point in continuing to discuss this with you, I would suggest that perhaps you shouldn't assume that just because a car works for you/your lifestyle it automatically means it will work for everybody else. Some people might consider two weeks out of a single carry-on bag to be a stretch too far, requiring a greater volume of luggage space and thus drawing them to, you know, GT cars with greater storage capacity.
Gotta buy what works for you, but I have to say that to me the Mclaren GT's just seem to look huge in the flesh, I was nosing around at one in Dick Lovett when I was there last and just thought it looked odd in someway like they had stuck to huge intakes on the sides.
Have you considered maybe trying to find a Mclaren 570S GT, I remember those had a lot more luggage space and the rear window was latched so would open up and they look just like a 570S so have nicer proportions.
As with all things Mclaren make sure you buy incredibly well, the depreciation can be crucifying as proven by current prices on 570S (87k) and 720S (130-150k), the last thing you want is to buy one and three years later its lost you in 50k in just depreciation or more.
I remember telling you a 599 is huge, so glad you tried one and found the same issue, if you have not tried an F12 though maybe give one a go as Ferrari did shrink the proportions down over the 599, just with an F12 the handling can be quite spikey, 812 improved a lot on this with more progressive at limit handling, the extra power was just Ferrari showing off and saying to its competitors we can make an NA V12 that kicks out more power than competitors V12's with turbos. Ferrari make the best V12's end of and the car around them, the engine is the highlight of car and makes them so special.
Maybe look at a Ferrari 488, the front frunk if it is same as my 458 (think it is) is well huge, we get two hard case suitcases in ours, full size and soft bags, plus there is then a shelf behind the seats to fit more stuff like additional soft bags or helmets. We did 10-11 day touring Scotland and 2500 miles in my 458, staying at different hotels every night and we had no issues and my passenger was my Mrs who brings a lot of luggage with her, typical women. I am sure the 488 has the same front frunk, it was only the Pista, Speciale and F8 that lost a considerable amount of luggage space due to the front air duct.
Otherwise I still think an Aston DB11 in the orange colour they do would make a superb GT car.
Also Porsches tend to have ample storage space, Boxster/Cayman have huge amounts of luggage space, but maybe not special enough and of course a 911 GT3 without the cage has lots of luggage space and they are pretty comfortable. Your looking at 150k cars, a 991.2 GT3 manual would easily handle your GT requirements, it has one other major advantage it will probably not depreciate a penny, has far lower running cost and a far superior warranty package.
Porsche Wilmslow have a gorgeous red 991.2 GT3 manual in stock at 146k as I've been eying it up, they don't have it advertised anywhere for some reason but it is in their used car showroom, I suspect they are not trying to sell it due to demand levels for said cars but at 146k it is also reasonably priced considering its a manual, if you want PDK then there is a few nice examples of same car knocking around at 130-135k and again won't lose you much money.
Have you driven an AMG GTR? Not talking my book up but for what you outline a good fit. It's like the Aston but better in every way bar the badge and subjective stuff. Image is not for all and I understand that, but for what you cover in your first paragraph perfect. Will waft along in silence in comfort mode, decent damping (for this type of car) and then come to life when you need it. Boot space will carry 2 decent size suitcases and other stuff as well.Not worth its own thread really and this seems as good a place as any!
I took this out for a drive the other day:
I've spent the last 2-3 months agonising over buying a GT car. I'm massively conflicted on exactly what I want from a car, but broadly I want something that is able to take the mrs and I to anywhere in continental Europe in relative comfort but also be able to enjoy the best roads that Europe has to offer when I get there. The M5 was utterly brilliant on motorways and fast A-roads but as things start to tighten it became less brilliant. Not to the point of annoyance as such but you're aware you're managing the weight and the brakes more than you're enjoying the scenery. Doing a full day of B-road driving in it was draining in ways that the M2 wasn't.
I've discounted the Bentley Continental GT for the same reasons as the M5 - undoubtedly the best way to get from A to B along motorways but it weighs about the same as the QE2 and feels about as agile. I gave serious consideration to the DB11 AMR and new Vantage - the latter is surprisingly capacious when it comes to luggage and while it is very sporty it isn't as draining on long drives as you might expect. I also looked at the Ferrari California T after deciding there was simply no way I wanted to actually own the car which originally started this whole thing, the 599. For me the 599 was simply too big, too old, too mental to run. The Cali T Handling Speciale is a nice car, looks ace in the right colour and sounds good. But the interior felt... flimsy? Gorgeous material quality in terms of tactility but I couldn't help but feel like the perceived quality was really poor. You'd be alright if the car was £50k but at well over twice that, it wasn't good enough and the rest of the package didn't make up for it.
So, I'd got to the point where I'd more or less decided on the DB11 and accepted that it is dynamically compromised (but not enough and not in the same way as the M5 to put me off) when I happened across a review of the McLaren 570GT. After some digging around, chatting to a few people and so on I arranged to pop into McLaren and explore the new McLaren GT...
I've got to be honest, I didn't really know what I was expecting. Immediately, it is a LOT smaller in person than it looks in photos. Yes, it is bigger than any other McLaren and a lot less shrink-wrapped/taut but I don't think that is a negative thing, personally. The ride is surreal - at least as good as my Range Rover's air suspension and miles better than the M5 although it is inescapably much more noisy than any other car I've considered. Not too noisy, but noisy nevertheless. This is without the 720S's linked dampers etc. Performance is what it is, 611bhp from what is essentially a detuned 720S engine. Certainly would have the legs on the DB11 AMR pretty much from any speed to any speed but only if you were in the right gear. Catch it off guard and in too high a gear and there's one, maybe two eternities of waiting for it to wake up. Cornering is predictably on another level meaning overall performance is a stratosphere above the DB11. Interior fit and finish I would put above both the DB11 and Cali T but nowhere near the Conti GT. Luggage space is actually pretty impressive. I had my doubts but it is usable and I could easily fit luggage for two for two weeks in it without feeling packed in. 150L in the frunk, ~400L in the back although the shape is awkward. Using soft luggage and packing smart you could probably do an even longer trip.
In many ways it is just another McLaren with the edges rounded off but, while there is no way I'd want to buy a 720S for what I want from a car, this ticks every box. Am I going to buy one? Watch this space!
I think the 570S is a good car, proper quick like all McLaren's but comes with that TVR feel.... "is it going to **** out on me on this trip". The 720S is about as quick as road cars get, the 765 is as quick as they get and both are magnificent but just too fast I'd argue for most. Also have you driven a GT3? Again fantastic for touring and nothing bests it on the right road for fun.
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Soldato
@Gibbo I did take your advice seriously and you were right - plus I took a hard look at the likely running costs even with the Ferrari Power warranty and decided that the whole endeavour was a bust. F12s seem to have appreciated strongly to the point where they are out of reach for me plus as you say they are a bit spikey and hyperactive. I had FFS run the numbers on a gorgeous spec one in Leeds but while I could do it, it wouldn't be sensible and would affect my life in ways I don't want a car to. Portofino has the numbers more in my realm but is basically a California T facelift in a lot of ways. Totally gorgeous in the flesh when in the right colour but I think with my Ferrari itch I'll scratch it with a classic in a few years time, 40th birthday present maybe.
I've looked at the 570GT - the issue with the 570GT is that the GT exists. It is *so* much nicer inside and just better for relatively worry-free travels. The GT has the same sort of ride height as a saloon car with the lift up but otherwise sits quite high (for the type of car) compared to the 570GT. I've been out on drives where 570S/GT have been left for dead on cambered roads because of grounding, bucking etc means they can't actually drive the car properly. I don't want that sort of compromise in this car - I'd rather have a car with the edge taken off that I can stretch rather than always having to hold back to save the car. Basically, I never want to feel that I've taken the wrong car out, which happened frustratingly frequently when running two cars either side of the tourer/sports car divide.
I know buying a 2021 McLaren more or less no matter what the model has the potential to be fairly savage in depreciation but then so does the DB11. My rough estimation is that a £140k GT is going to depreciate about as much as a £140k DB11 AMR over the same period. You're right about 911 GT3 values being strong and they absolutely would be the depreciation-proof accountant-friendly purchase but I just can't. I have never liked the 911, I more than appreciate them from a technical/mechanical point of view but they do nothing for me in the feels - I don't covet them in the same way as I do pretty much any Ferrari, Aston, some McLarens, even the Merc AMG GTR holds more "want" for me than the 911. I know that's illogical but that's just being human, isn't it?
@Housey I went to Mercedes and got the usual abhorrent Mercedes dealer treatment. We went in to look at a brand new EQA for the mrs and then an AMG GTR. Wouldn't unlock even the EQA and even after demonstrating more than sufficient ability to buy both on the spot they didn't change their attitude. They offered to take our number and call us to make an appointment which of course they didn't call. I had a similar experience as an actual Mercedes owner years ago and vowed never to go back but gave them this one more chance and they blew it. I have many friends with near identical dealer experiences and that's killed my interest in the brand stone dead now. McLaren, Ferrari and Aston Martin were nothing like this at all, with each of them going out of their way to make me feel welcome. You would imagine those brands to be more like the Merc experience due to the sheer number of dreamers they must get but nope.
I've looked at the 570GT - the issue with the 570GT is that the GT exists. It is *so* much nicer inside and just better for relatively worry-free travels. The GT has the same sort of ride height as a saloon car with the lift up but otherwise sits quite high (for the type of car) compared to the 570GT. I've been out on drives where 570S/GT have been left for dead on cambered roads because of grounding, bucking etc means they can't actually drive the car properly. I don't want that sort of compromise in this car - I'd rather have a car with the edge taken off that I can stretch rather than always having to hold back to save the car. Basically, I never want to feel that I've taken the wrong car out, which happened frustratingly frequently when running two cars either side of the tourer/sports car divide.
I know buying a 2021 McLaren more or less no matter what the model has the potential to be fairly savage in depreciation but then so does the DB11. My rough estimation is that a £140k GT is going to depreciate about as much as a £140k DB11 AMR over the same period. You're right about 911 GT3 values being strong and they absolutely would be the depreciation-proof accountant-friendly purchase but I just can't. I have never liked the 911, I more than appreciate them from a technical/mechanical point of view but they do nothing for me in the feels - I don't covet them in the same way as I do pretty much any Ferrari, Aston, some McLarens, even the Merc AMG GTR holds more "want" for me than the 911. I know that's illogical but that's just being human, isn't it?
@Housey I went to Mercedes and got the usual abhorrent Mercedes dealer treatment. We went in to look at a brand new EQA for the mrs and then an AMG GTR. Wouldn't unlock even the EQA and even after demonstrating more than sufficient ability to buy both on the spot they didn't change their attitude. They offered to take our number and call us to make an appointment which of course they didn't call. I had a similar experience as an actual Mercedes owner years ago and vowed never to go back but gave them this one more chance and they blew it. I have many friends with near identical dealer experiences and that's killed my interest in the brand stone dead now. McLaren, Ferrari and Aston Martin were nothing like this at all, with each of them going out of their way to make me feel welcome. You would imagine those brands to be more like the Merc experience due to the sheer number of dreamers they must get but nope.
Yea, I never went near a Merc dealer to buy mine and I have found Mercedes dealers to be pretty shabby in the main. I don't know where you are based, but Redline cars up north are decent and always have interesting cars. I didn't buy form them, but they were accommodating and good to work with and I have a few friends who have had positive experiences with them. Tend to have good cars and lots of the cars you list. Don't cut your nose off to spite your face would be my advice, go find a decent one in an independent and drive it. I actually got Wolverhampton Mercedes to bring a GTR to my house to drive, only took a phone call but like you other dealers made me feel like a bin diver dreamer and I'm no dreamer.
Dealers, so often the point of failure.
