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GPU Miners : The cost of honesty

Soldato
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Canterbury
The wife has been using her 1660 super for about a year solid mining and gaming. Heck she even plays minecraft while mining lol. Shes had it for over 2 years. These things either work or they don't, unless running out of spec for long periods.
 
Soldato
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21,843
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Rollergirl
The Memory architecture is the most fragile thing on GPU's.

Used RTX 2070 Super's are currently going for £500 to £600 on FleaBay

If you were to ask me if i was happy to pay even £300 for one that's had its IMC and Momory IC's running flatout for 2 years solid i would say i'll take a punt on it for £50.

That's not really based on anything other than you don't like the thought of it. If mining is that bad for hardware then why are there not hundreds of posters on here with their tales of woe?

The truth is that the cards are capable of mining 24/7 just as they are of gaming 24/7 or any professional software/use.
 
Associate
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815
I bought an ex mining Rx570 for my youngest 2 years ago and it's been rock solid. Bought knowing it was ex mining for £110 and had one of the bioses still set for mining so no good for gaming but the other works fine.
 
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Things you love to see, ALXAndy getting one tapped.
He is an old name.
I remember not liking him for some reason, I think it was when I had my GTX 480 and he had his, we held different opinions.
I always thought I was more knowledgeable but over time thought I was also arrogant as back then people were more on his side than mine, I have a very direct and abrupt way of putting things that gets on peoples nerves.. But then I also know truth hurts too.

Hmm do arrogant people look inwards though?
 
Soldato
Joined
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11,896
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West Sussex
He is an old name.
I remember not liking him for some reason, I think it was when I had my GTX 480 and he had his, we held different opinions.
I always thought I was more knowledgeable but over time thought I was also arrogant as back then people were more on his side than mine, I have a very direct and abrupt way of putting things that gets on peoples nerves.. But then I also know truth hurts too.

Hmm do arrogant people look inwards though?

I'm not arrogant. It seems I am only being arrogant when I post in this area of the forum. Most probably because this area has always been the same. Very touchy and easily upset people post in here. That's why I haven't bothered in years. No matter what your thoughts and feelings are someone will always disagree. Just like Facebook. Sometimes I play the game "disagreeing ahole" and I am never disappointed. All you do is post your feelings and sure enough, instant disagreement.

Obviously when you post your opinions thoughts and feelings (at least if you are completely honest) you will touch a few nerves. Pretty obvious who mines from this thread, let's put it that way.

However, I've been into PCs for a long time. 40 years now (god I feel old) and I know one thing. Heat kills. That is why every GPU I have had from the Titan M on have been water cooled. ICs just don't like running hot, and lead free solder is whack. And always has been, and always will be.

I don't specifically know exactly what was wrong with the Vega 64 I had. It could very well have been the HBM was starting to fail. However, the issues I posted about weren't the only issues. Not only did it have to be underclocked just to work it also refused to run in four risers. I really wanted it vertical, but it seems it would just lose signal and crash. Was it the power phases? no idea.

Now if I hadn't bought two mining cards? then fair enough. I could see why people would reject my opinions and thoughts. However, when you've been burned twice? yeah, ain't about to do it again. That's how I feel, and I don't care who doesn't like it.

In the video I posted the guy was taking cards down and putting them in a ultra sonic cleaner. Why? who does that?. Now again, I know that won't hurt your hardware so long as you let it dry. However, there's a reason why he is doing that. Also, again, I would not want a card that has had to go through that. Again, that's my opinion. I would rather have one that has just been gamed on.

To that ends (because I know how this forum is very well) I shall leave it there.
 
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I'm not arrogant. It seems I am only being arrogant when I post in this area of the forum. Most probably because this area has always been the same. Very touchy and easily upset people post in here. That's why I haven't bothered in years. No matter what your thoughts and feelings are someone will always disagree. Just like Facebook. Sometimes I play the game "disagreeing ahole" and I am never disappointed. All you do is post your feelings and sure enough, instant disagreement.

Obviously when you post your opinions thoughts and feelings (at least if you are completely honest) you will touch a few nerves. Pretty obvious who mines from this thread, let's put it that way.

However, I've been into PCs for a long time. 40 years now (god I feel old) and I know one thing. Heat kills. That is why every GPU I have had from the Titan M on have been water cooled. ICs just don't like running hot, and lead free solder is whack. And always has been, and always will be.

I don't specifically know exactly what was wrong with the Vega 64 I had. It could very well have been the HBM was starting to fail. However, the issues I posted about weren't the only issues. Not only did it have to be underclocked just to work it also refused to run in four risers. I really wanted it vertical, but it seems it would just lose signal and crash. Was it the power phases? no idea.

Now if I hadn't bought two mining cards? then fair enough. I could see why people would reject my opinions and thoughts. However, when you've been burned twice? yeah, ain't about to do it again. That's how I feel, and I don't care who doesn't like it.

In the video I posted the guy was taking cards down and putting them in a ultra sonic cleaner. Why? who does that?. Now again, I know that won't hurt your hardware so long as you let it dry. However, there's a reason why he is doing that. Also, again, I would not want a card that has had to go through that. Again, that's my opinion. I would rather have one that has just been gamed on.

To that ends (because I know how this forum is very well) I shall leave it there.

You seem to know a lot don't you?

Feelings are personal, objectively though you did not take an objective view, just one pulled from your own "experience" See I could do that, I bought an RX 570 and 480 in the past, both needed reflashing with their original bios and never choked.
But yours did! See how easy it is to counter?

Feelings are a small place compared to objective reality around us, although understanding is of course limited to human understanding and so everything is interpreted through subjective understanding that humans understand as a whole and we call that objectivity.

Truth is objectivity does not exist, but we must name it different to feelings because it comes through observations and we also do have facts.

Ok on a factual and objective basis, a GPU with much lowered voltage and clocks is not running anywhere near as hard as say ALX andy pushing his GTX 480 on a D-wood mod AIO.
Now funnily my GTX 480 died after pushing it hard on a LN2 bios of 960mhz on the core with a Gelid Icy Vision REV 2.0 and Thermalright VRM cooler.

4 years it lasted.

You happened to get cards that died, but your GTX 480 only had a fan go bad..

Funny how "luck of the draw" works eh?

If you sell that GTX 480 as "working" who is anyone to tell you, you are wrong?
It works, that is factual. You overclocked it but are not in any type of obligation to reveal that.

Don't get ahead of yourself mate.
 
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Soldato
Joined
9 Nov 2009
Posts
24,824
Location
Planet Earth
I'm not arrogant. It seems I am only being arrogant when I post in this area of the forum. Most probably because this area has always been the same. Very touchy and easily upset people post in here. That's why I haven't bothered in years. No matter what your thoughts and feelings are someone will always disagree. Just like Facebook. Sometimes I play the game "disagreeing ahole" and I am never disappointed. All you do is post your feelings and sure enough, instant disagreement.

Obviously when you post your opinions thoughts and feelings (at least if you are completely honest) you will touch a few nerves. Pretty obvious who mines from this thread, let's put it that way.

However, I've been into PCs for a long time. 40 years now (god I feel old) and I know one thing. Heat kills. That is why every GPU I have had from the Titan M on have been water cooled. ICs just don't like running hot, and lead free solder is whack. And always has been, and always will be.

I don't specifically know exactly what was wrong with the Vega 64 I had. It could very well have been the HBM was starting to fail. However, the issues I posted about weren't the only issues. Not only did it have to be underclocked just to work it also refused to run in four risers. I really wanted it vertical, but it seems it would just lose signal and crash. Was it the power phases? no idea.

Now if I hadn't bought two mining cards? then fair enough. I could see why people would reject my opinions and thoughts. However, when you've been burned twice? yeah, ain't about to do it again. That's how I feel, and I don't care who doesn't like it.

In the video I posted the guy was taking cards down and putting them in a ultra sonic cleaner. Why? who does that?. Now again, I know that won't hurt your hardware so long as you let it dry. However, there's a reason why he is doing that. Also, again, I would not want a card that has had to go through that. Again, that's my opinion. I would rather have one that has just been gamed on.

To that ends (because I know how this forum is very well) I shall leave it there.

You haven't said any arrogant at all. But you forget you have amateur miners on here who are desperate to ditch their used dGPUs for as much as possible,so want to bury any negativity about cards which have been hammered. It has affect on the value of their dGPUs,and recently Linus went back on his own advice and said not to buy dGPUs which were mined on(he found out the hard way).

I have seen exactly the same with people having bought dGPUs used heavily for mining - the same sorts of issues with the memory subsystem and fans,etc.

But OFC they want to say its fine,because they want to ditch their hammered dGPUs,and the moment issues transpire run away like bandits. I have seen this over the nearly 20 years I have been on tech forums - people make promises nothing bad will happen. I have seen it with people promising X CPU/dGPU will overclock to Y MHZ/GHZ fine at Z voltage. But when it never happens,or it leads to longer term issues they are suddenly nowhere to be seen and they leave people in the lurch. Empty promises can be made by anyone. It's not like they are financially compensate people who can get screwed over.

Its telling when new mining orientated dGPUs themselves have short warranties,unlike even the professional cards used for compute purposes in servers,etc.

Also WRT to cooling of those professional dGPUs made for 24/7 operation,they are made for rack systems,and have forced induction cooling with tons of airflow in temperature controlled rooms. This is why server rooms are so noisy and also why cooling can be a significant amount of the energy consumption of a server room

I remember seeing some of the rackmount installations,when the Human Genome project was being done. In one installation it was basically one floor of server racks,and the next floor was dedicated for cooling!

Warranties are not done out of the goodness of companies hearts. Either they are a legal requirement or simply a marketing thing. When I say marketing thing,they have crunched the numbers and seen how many years the products will last without failure. Then they will adjust warranty to within that period. They are not going to warranty a product to the maximum time they know when failures are going to happen(unless they are caught out by an undiscovered issue).
 
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Soldato
Joined
7 Dec 2010
Posts
8,239
Location
Leeds
You haven't said any arrogant at all. But you forget you have amateur miners on here who are desperate to ditch their used dGPUs for as much as possible,so want to bury any negativity about cards which have been hammered. It has affect on the value of their dGPUs,and recently Linus went back on his own advice and said not to buy dGPUs which were mined on(he found out the hard way).

I have seen exactly the same with people having bought dGPUs used heavily for mining - the same sorts of issues with the memory subsystem and fans,etc.

But OFC they want to say its fine,because they want to ditch their hammered dGPUs,and the moment issues transpire run away like bandits. I have seen this over the nearly 20 years I have been on tech forums - people make promises nothing bad will happen. I have seen it with people promising X CPU/dGPU will overclock to Y MHZ/GHZ fine at Z voltage. But when it never happens,or it leads to longer issues they are suddenly nowhere to be seen. Empty promises can be made by anyone. It's not like they are financially compensate people who can get screwed over.

Its telling when new mining orientated dGPUs themselves have short warranties,unlike even the professional cards use for compute purposes in servers,etc.

Warranties are not done out of the goodness of companies hearts. Either they are a legal requirement or simply a marketing thing. When I say marketing thing,they have crunched the numbers and seen how many years the products will last without failure. Then they will adjust warranty to within that period. They are not going to warranty a product to the maximum time they know when failures are going to happen(unless they are caught out by an undiscovered issue).

Basically this ...^...END THREAD...

Should be closed now and sent to the mining section of the forums.
 
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You haven't said any arrogant at all. But you forget you have amateur miners on here who are desperate to ditch their used dGPUs for as much as possible,so want to bury any negativity about cards which have been hammered. It has affect on the value of their dGPUs,and recently Linus went back on his own advice and said not to buy dGPUs which were mined on(he found out the hard way).

I have seen exactly the same with people having bought dGPUs used heavily for mining - the same sorts of issues with the memory subsystem and fans,etc.

But OFC they want to say its fine,because they want to ditch their hammered dGPUs,and the moment issues transpire run away like bandits. I have seen this over the nearly 20 years I have been on tech forums - people make promises nothing bad will happen. I have seen it with people promising X CPU/dGPU will overclock to Y MHZ/GHZ fine at Z voltage. But when it never happens,or it leads to longer issues they are suddenly nowhere to be seen. Empty promises can be made by anyone. It's not like they are financially compensate people who can get screwed over.

Its telling when new mining orientated dGPUs themselves have short warranties,unlike even the professional cards use for compute purposes in servers,etc.

Warranties are not done out of the goodness of companies hearts. Either they are a legal requirement or simply a marketing thing. When I say marketing thing,they have crunched the numbers and seen how many years the products will last without failure. Then they will adjust warranty to within that period. They are not going to warranty a product to the maximum time they know when failures are going to happen(unless they are caught out by an undiscovered issue).
You seem just as deluded as the guy you respond to, that everyone is out to get him, you think everyone with an opposing view mines.
 
Soldato
Joined
23 Apr 2010
Posts
11,896
Location
West Sussex
You seem to know a lot don't you?

Feelings are personal, objectively though you did not take an objective view, just one pulled from your own "experience" See I could do that, I bought an RX 570 and 480 in the past, both needed reflashing with their original bios and never choked.
But yours did! See how easy it is to counter?

Feelings are a small place compared to objective reality around us, although understanding is of course limited to human understanding and so everything is interpreted through subjective understanding that humans understand as a whole and we call that objectivity.

Truth is objectivity does not exist, but we must name it different to feelings because it comes through observations and we also do have facts.

Ok on a factual and objective basis, a GPU with much lowered voltage and clocks is not running anywhere near as hard as say ALX andy pushing his GTX 480 on a D-wood mod AIO.
Now funnily my GTX 480 died after pushing it hard on a LN2 bios of 960mhz on the core with a Gelid Icy Vision REV 2.0 and Thermalright VRM cooler.

4 years it lasted.

You happened to get cards that died, but your GTX 480 only had a fan go bad..

Funny how "luck of the draw" works eh?

Countering things is called an argument. Been there, seen that, done it. Now? I just usually post my thoughts and feelings and just leave it there. Like I said, always someone who wants to disagree which tbh? I don't really care about.

As for knowing a lot? yes, I do. Not only do I have all of my home PC time I have racked up over the years but also 4 years running a very busy IT shop and modding and etc etc. Thats besides the point, though really. And BTW? you can read into that as much as you like. Take it as arrogant, or, merely as factual as I typed it. And that's another issue. Like I said, you can't really post anything AT ALL in this forum section without being dragged over the coals for it. People seem to get really, super touchy about things in here.

As for my GTX 480 on a Dwood mod? I didn't over volt the card. I never do. In fact, I have found with both of my 2080Ti that if I shove up the power limit it actually hurts the card. Let alone flashing on LN2 bioses (both of my cards can be, I haven't). I put cards on water (full water) because I have never had one fail since doing so. TBH? I don't use AIO brackets any more because I have discovered a flaw with those too. Will get onto that in a minute. As such? I just block my cards up, lower the temp and power limit and let them do their thing. One of my 2080Ti likes to start showing orbs if the memory reaches about 86c. By lowering the temp and power limit? it runs at 2100mhz all day long without any issues. And before you say it, yes ! it was cheap. £480 just after the 30 series came out and I knew what I was getting because the seller was very honest (and it wasn't a mining card it just has early VRAM on it that isn't dead dead like some of them but not great).

Going back to AIOs and AIO brackets? they only use four mounting points. Meaning over time your card begins to banana in the middle and then if you ever remove it and put the stock cooler back on (with all of its many mounting points, like a water block) you can crack the BGA and kill it. Much like the 2080Ti I bought from Ebay with a blower cooler on that the seller just couldn't understand why it wasn't working since he removed the AIO and put it back to air. At least a water block offers solid mounting coverage over the whole card.

BTW as for the GTX 480? I had forgotten all about that. Really, I had. Why you would remember that (at first I was like WTF is Dwood?) is quite good. Didn't he end up ripping a load of people off and then vanishing?
 
Soldato
Joined
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11,896
Location
West Sussex
You seem just as deluded as the guy you respond to, that everyone is out to get him, you think everyone with an opposing view mines.

Now you are becoming insulting. Which again, is quite normal for this place.

I don't think every one is out to get me, and nor would I care even if they were. Seriously, forum psychology = bad.
 
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Countering things is called an argument. Been there, seen that, done it. Now? I just usually post my thoughts and feelings and just leave it there. Like I said, always someone who wants to disagree which tbh? I don't really care about.

As for knowing a lot? yes, I do. Not only do I have all of my home PC time I have racked up over the years but also 4 years running a very busy IT shop and modding and etc etc. Thats besides the point, though really. And BTW? you can read into that as much as you like. Take it as arrogant, or, merely as factual as I typed it. And that's another issue. Like I said, you can't really post anything AT ALL in this forum section without being dragged over the coals for it. People seem to get really, super touchy about things in here.

As for my GTX 480 on a Dwood mod? I didn't over volt the card. I never do. In fact, I have found with both of my 2080Ti that if I shove up the power limit it actually hurts the card. Let alone flashing on LN2 bioses (both of my cards can be, I haven't). I put cards on water (full water) because I have never had one fail since doing so. TBH? I don't use AIO brackets any more because I have discovered a flaw with those too. Will get onto that in a minute. As such? I just block my cards up, lower the temp and power limit and let them do their thing. One of my 2080Ti likes to start showing orbs if the memory reaches about 86c. By lowering the temp and power limit? it runs at 2100mhz all day long without any issues. And before you say it, yes ! it was cheap. £480 just after the 30 series came out and I knew what I was getting because the seller was very honest (and it wasn't a mining card it just has early VRAM on it that isn't dead dead like some of them but not great).

Going back to AIOs and AIO brackets? they only use four mounting points. Meaning over time your card begins to banana in the middle and then if you ever remove it and put the stock cooler back on (with all of its many mounting points, like a water block) you can crack the BGA and kill it. Much like the 2080Ti I bought from Ebay with a blower cooler on that the seller just couldn't understand why it wasn't working since he removed the AIO and put it back to air. At least a water block offers solid mounting coverage over the whole card.

BTW as for the GTX 480? I had forgotten all about that. Really, I had. Why you would remember that (at first I was like WTF is Dwood?) is quite good. Didn't he end up ripping a load of people off and then vanishing?

Just disproves your stupid argument because it fits your narrative. You effectively overclocked the card... sell it... what is the difference? A stock voltage 480 can be anywhere from 1.025v up to 1.100v

You seem to think people around you are clueless, pedestal. Arrogance.


Sell the card... died in a month, are you to know it would die? Your non over-volting of the card... you had the perspective that you were in the right.. yet it went wrong..

Those people with cards going poof not long after buying new.. what about them? No scapegoat to blame? Maybe the company?

Logically a card undervolted and at lower clock speeds is way less pushed than at stock or overclocked, yet you still think you are right.
 
Soldato
Joined
23 Apr 2010
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11,896
Location
West Sussex
Just disproves your stupid argument because it fits your narrative. You effectively overclocked the card... sell it... what is the difference? A stock voltage 480 can be anywhere from 1.025v up to 1.100v

You seem to think people around you are clueless, pedestal. Arrogance.


Sell the card... died in a month, are you to know it would die? Your non over-volting of the card... you had the perspective that you were in the right.. yet it went wrong..

Those people with cards going poof not long after buying new.. what about them? No scapegoat to blame? Maybe the company?

Logically a card undervolted and at lower clock speeds is way less pushed than at stock or overclocked, yet you still think you are right.

OK ignoring the fact you seem to be very aggressive. What do you mean killed my GTX 480? I did no such thing. The cooler I was using on the CPU leaked on it and the rig was on. The GPU didn't die. I sold them both "as is" stating what had happened and they needed to be cleaned.

Clueless, arrogance. See what I mean? this is exactly what I was talking about. All thinly veiled insults, which is what this section of the forum has always been about. Only I'm not, hence why I haven't posted here in eons.

BTW with regards to hardware? let's get to the meat and potatoes of that shall we?

Have a look through my sales threads. A close look. Note recently, even with the drought, I sold a 2070 Super I'd had a water block on. The pads that came on the cards were single use (it was a lower priced model) and thus I had to replace them with new ones. All of this was disclosed, and I sold it stupid cheap just because of that. Of course the card was perfect, given it was hardly used for anything at all.

But that's what it is about isn't it? honesty. If people are honest? you have no problems. I walked into that Vega 64 knowing full well its history, what it had been doing and the fact it had no warranty. And to that ends with some under clocking it served the purpose for a year.

It's when people say things like "Never been overclocked ! always at stock" etc.

What I am saying is this, and it's the same as I have said all along. I will not buy any cards that have been used for mining. My right, thanks. All I have done is state my opinions and some facts about the longevity of components and nothing more. Not called people deluded, on a pedestal, arrogant or anything else. Maybe you should think about that a little.

Tada.
 
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OK ignoring the fact you seem to be very aggressive. What do you mean killed my GTX 480? I did no such thing. The cooler I was using on the CPU leaked on it and the rig was on. The GPU didn't die. I sold them both "as is" stating what had happened and they needed to be cleaned.

Clueless, arrogance. See what I mean? this is exactly what I was talking about. All thinly veiled insults, which is what this section of the forum has always been about. Only I'm not, hence why I haven't posted here in eons.
I will put in simple form for you, if it did, it's an argument made. It has not happened, but if it did?

Plenty have... so I mean it's not a bad argument to make.
But we can point fingers can't we if we believe enough even if it is far from the truth.


You believe yourself as "good" you don't use logic that's what ****** me off with many, they think they are right, truth is so far away from them.
 
Soldato
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Location
Planet Earth
Basically this ...^...END THREAD...

Should be closed now and sent to the mining section of the forums.

Caveat Emptor is now a term of offence(apparently!).

:cry:

BTW as for the GTX 480? I had forgotten all about that. Really, I had. Why you would remember that (at first I was like WTF is Dwood?) is quite good. Didn't he end up ripping a load of people off and then vanishing?

Because empty promises are that.....empty. Caveat Emptor is all "scaremongering" and "project fear" when the promises are made. Then they get pithy and group together.

But the reality when things go south many go silent.

Only then will they invoke Caveat Emptor once there is a problem,blame the enduser(instead of their over-optimistic advice) if they happen to stick around. I have seen it so many times when this has happened. Now it is relevant,not before.

Seen it repeatedly over the last 20 years. My view because they are so financially invested in it all,they see it as an attack on a job/source of income and any negativity on mined dGPUs costs them money.
 
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Soldato
Joined
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8,239
Location
Leeds
Caveat Emptor is now a term of offence(apparently!).

:cry:
:cry:..


The real problem is miners are about to get really touchy soon as the prices of coins are coming down and countries are now banning it outright from mining to spending the coins.

Another one now Russia..Also in April electricity prices are going to wipe out mining profits too in UK, Europe and rest of the world not on cheap electricity..


Russia, the world’s third largest crypto miner, to ban both GPU mining and usage of crypto

https://wccftech.com/russia-third-largest-crypto-mining-country-to-ban-both-gpu-mining-crypto-usage/

Today, Russia's central bank announced the possible banning of the use and any sorts of crypto mining (GPU, etc) of cryptocurrencies on Russian territory. This information comes in light of the cited threats to the country's current financial stabilization, the wellbeing of the country's citizens, and independence with its monetary policy.

Bank of Russia Is Prepping To Ban Both GPU Mining & Crypto Usage Across The Nation
The ban on crypto mining and usage continues to travel worldwide, from Asia's crackdowns last year to the United States' concerns on severe risks with digital currencies and the possibility of sabotage to monetary and financial institutions and systems.

Intel’s “Bonanza Mine” Bitcoin-mining chip finds first customer, crypto startup GRIID

Initially, the Russian government contended against digital currencies for possible uses in terrorism and money laundering. In 2020, the government was able to ban cryptocurrency as a form of payment but could not stop the legalization of digital money.

The central bank of Russia states the theoretical markets predominantly defined cryptos' rapid shift, noting that cryptocurrencies showed similarities of an economic pyramid, cautioning of probable swells in the financial markets, jeopardizing the economic strength of its citizens.

The Russian central bank suggested preventing any financial body from enacting any business with digital currency, instructing to halt and dissuade any transactions involving the sale and purchase of crypto to finance fiat money. This order also includes any exchanges that work primarily in cryptocurrency.

Binance, one of the largest cryptocurrency exchange systems, plans to open dialogue with the Russian central bank to protect crypto enthusiasts and users.

For now there are no plans to ban cryptocurrencies similar to the experience of China.

The approach we have proposed will suffice.

— Elizaveta Danilova, Head of the Binance Financial Stability Department

Right now, there are no current restrictions on owning any cryptocurrency. This ban will strain active users who, as a community, have amassed an "annual transaction volume" of upwards of $5 billion.

Intel readies “Bonanza Mine” chip for bitcoin crypto mining, unveiling at ISSCC

Joseph Edwards of crypto firm Solrise Group stated that this report would not hurt crypto mining Russians.

Moscow, like Beijing, is always rattling its sabre over 'crypto bans', but Russia has never been a pillar of any facet of the industry in the same way as China has been at times.

— Joseph Edwards, Head of Financial Strategy, Solrise Group

The central bank of Russia's recent report could also arise from the energy consumption plaguing parts of the country, including Kosovo, where Serbian minorities have continued to enact revenge on the governing body by refusing to pay for necessities, such as energy costs. The Kosovo government has funded those areas due to the glooming human rights issues that would unearth from neglecting individual's needs.
 
Soldato
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Like I said, you can't really post anything AT ALL in this forum section without being dragged over the coals for it. People seem to get really, super touchy about things in here.

Know the feeling! :cry: I would distract yourself from it and not waste energy (all of you). Once a discussion boils over that fine line no sides really listen and its pointless.
 
Soldato
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Posts
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Leeds
Know the feeling! :cry: I would distract yourself from it and not waste energy (all of you). Once a discussion boils over that fine line no sides really listen and its pointless.

Exactly.. best to just ignore it and move on. I saw same happening in other threads too as gpurrilla clearly highlighted in them threads. Honestly just ignore and let them be, no point having a discussion with someone with a one track mind and view.
 
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I like how people here are talking amongst themselves but there is no actual discrepancy directly with what is stated in argument against the certain crowd.
Talking amongst themselves indirectly trying to cover what is a lack of ability to understand or wilfulness, typical British passive behavior.
 
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