Major U.S. airlines warn 5G could ground some planes !

Terminal_Boy · 20 Jan 2022 at 14:17

MadMossy said:
43dBm is still pretty powerful considering 100mw is enough for an RF signal in open space to travel 20-30 miles. It was a guess though so its allowed to be wildly inaccurate

What RF kit do you have with that performance? 4G mobiles have a maximum EIRP of 24 dBM (0.25W) and they don’t have half that range even with the extremely complicated rake receiver arrays on the base stations.

My 5W VHF Motorola walkie-talkies manage 2 miles direct line of sight on a good day.

firstborn · 20 Jan 2022 at 18:06

dLockers said:
Really recommend people read this before whinging:
https://www.rtca.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Slides-5G-Interference-Risk-to-Radar-Altimeters.pdf
Not sure why I am bothering posting as no one in GD reads the thread anyway

In summary - lots of maybe, potentially blah blah. Nothing concrete and we are guessing there maybe a problem.

Feek · 20 Jan 2022 at 20:48

firstborn said:
In summary - lots of maybe, potentially blah blah. Nothing concrete and we are guessing there maybe a problem.

It reminds me of the 80s when the government released all their crap about the offshore pirate radio stations and the ‘potential’ risk to life due to interference where they churned out loads of utter rubbish that looked convincing to anyone with no actual knowledge of the subject matter.

dlockers · 20 Jan 2022 at 20:50

jpaul · 20 Jan 2022 at 21:00

Indeed thought 'we' had learned to follow the science now - unless you have better qualifications than the 3 who did the foils.

- haven't flown for a while but is airplane mode still obligatory during take-off ? have they done some extensive blind A/B trials

Minusorange · 20 Jan 2022 at 21:02

dLockers said:
Really recommend people read this before whinging:
https://www.rtca.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Slides-5G-Interference-Risk-to-Radar-Altimeters.pdf
Not sure why I am bothering posting as no one in GD reads the thread anyway

You could at least give us cliff notes for a TLDR

firstborn · 20 Jan 2022 at 21:06

Minusorange said:
You could at least give us cliff notes for a TLDR

But the poster doesn't understand it...

jpaul · 20 Jan 2022 at 21:12

so google suggests cliff notes are part of the uk education dumbing down process - some kind of precis for those too proud to push.

firstborn · 20 Jan 2022 at 21:15

jpaul said:
Indeed thought 'we' had learned to follow the science now - unless you have better qualifications than the 3 who did the foils.. .

Wouldn't matter on here as there's always somebody else who has read a wiki or two willing to talk tosh.

dlockers · 20 Jan 2022 at 21:17

firstborn said:
Wouldn't matter on here as there's always somebody else who has read a wiki or two willing to talk tosh.

Mate you've posted utter nonesense the entire thread. What is your point? Or is it just come to across as an alpha boy assimilate?

firstborn · 20 Jan 2022 at 21:24

dLockers said:
Mate you've posted utter nonesense the entire thread. What is your point? Or is it just come to across as an alpha boy assimilate?

And you've contributed what? A link to a document you don't understand... and dismissing someone with practical RF knowledge. Cracking effort.

dlockers · 20 Jan 2022 at 21:30

firstborn said:
And you've contributed what? A link to a document you don't understand... and dismissing someone with practical RF knowledge. Cracking effort.

You've said literally nothing other than pick on people quoting industry experts?

I once owned a Walkman, doesn't make me an RF expert.

Slam62 · 20 Jan 2022 at 21:50

Tldr I gather its something to with altimeter interference. So restrictions on landing in poor visibility, oh dear nvm.

MadMossy · 21 Jan 2022 at 09:44

Terminal_Boy said:
What RF kit do you have with that performance? 4G mobiles have a maximum EIRP of 24 dBM (0.25W) and they don’t have half that range even with the extremely complicated rake receiver arrays on the base stations.

My 5W VHF Motorola walkie-talkies manage 2 miles direct line of sight on a good day.

TX16S radio with ExpressLRS module over 2.4Ghz at 100mw, it's what I use for my FPV drones/planes, I've never had mine out that far as output power on my video transmitter is limited to 25mw, but the same RF equipment with 1.6w video power has had it over 30 miles at 100mw RF output.

I'm basically limited by my video output power, RF range will never be a problem.

Feek · 21 Jan 2022 at 12:32

MadMossy said:
43dBm is still pretty powerful considering 100mw is enough for an RF signal in open space to travel 20-30 miles.

Terminal_Boy said:
My 5W VHF Motorola walkie-talkies manage 2 miles direct line of sight on a good day.

And I've transmitted 150mW and it's been received in New Zealand but that's worthless here. It's just not possible to compare these things. Different frequencies, different transmission modes, different aerials. Every situation is different.

firstborn · 21 Jan 2022 at 13:25

Feek said:
And I've transmitted 150mW and it's been received in New Zealand but that's worthless here. It's just not possible to compare these things. Different frequencies, different transmission modes, different aerials. Every situation is different.

Indeed. Comms isn't a trivial thing to look at on a simple level and jump to a conclusion. Just to add some numbers (for the wiki warriors) I work from DC to 40GHz, mW to 100W and anything to do with PHY 1 wrt comms applications.

Maccy · 21 Jan 2022 at 13:29

Plot twist, there is no 5G.

firstborn · 21 Jan 2022 at 13:40

Maccy said:
Plot twist, there is no 5G.

It's more about 6G now.

jpaul · 21 Jan 2022 at 15:23

Health impact of 5G
EPRS | European Parliamentary Research Service Scientific Foresight Unit (STOA) PE 690.012 – July 2021

8. Policy options 8.1 Opting for novel technology for mobile phones that enables RF-EMF exposures to be reduced The sources of RF emissions that seem at present to pose the greatest threat are mobile phones. Though transmitting installations (radiobase masts) are perceived by some people as providing the greatest risk, actually the greatest burden of exposure in humans generally derives from their own mobile phones, and epidemiological studies have observed a statistically significant increase in brain tumours and Schwann cell tumours of the peripheral nerves, mainly among heavy cell-phone users.hh

- you know what to do.
e:maybe this why many of the bright young things impose their conversations on hands-free

Em3bbs · 21 Jan 2022 at 15:32

Feek said:
It reminds me of the 80s when the government released all their crap about the offshore pirate radio stations and the ‘potential’ risk to life due to interference where they churned out loads of utter rubbish that looked convincing to anyone with no actual knowledge of the subject matter.

What was the risk of life, was it interfering with emergency services? I do remember the days in the 80s when you could listen to Police on even a clock radio in the high VHF range where you would often find pirates as well, especially in London, so maybe it was to do with that?