Chip & Pin not so secure...

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The UK banking industry's massive investment in Chip & PIN payment cards has been brought into question after fraudsters stole more than £1 million from customers by implanting skimming devices in retailer PIN pads.
UK police have arrested eight people in connection with the fraud which affected hundreds of customers paying for goods and services at Shell petrol stations. Tampered card readers have been discovered at three Shell forecourts and the oil company has temporarily suspended all Chip and PIN payments at its network of outlets across the UK.

considering the banks supposedly tested and approved all the various makes/models, there really is no excuse...

the company i work for supplies some shell sites with a c&p solution, and our official line is:

"We are aware of problems experienced on some Shell sites with the Trintech device. At this stage information on the problem is sketchy, not least because it is subject to an ongoing police investigation and we are awaiting a formal statement from Trintech. However, we believe that the problem is related to the insertion of an electronic device and that in order to do this the Trintech has to be physically removed from the site. To date we have no indication of the problem being more widespread than indicated in the press - that is linked to Shell company owned sites"
 
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Chip and pin is like any other piece of security technology - someone will always find a way around it unfortunately
 
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I've been wary of something like this happening since I first went to a restaurant that used wireless chip & pin devices.

At the end of the day you're keying your pin number into a random box of electronics that has already read your card and could be doing anything with that information.
 
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Whatever technology we use, there's always the possibility of someone on the inside switching equipment. In addition, it's nothing to do with the fact that you enter a PIN rather than signing.
 
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D4VE said:
This happened at a Shell garage near me :(

Recently I had to sign for something when I paid by Switch, is this legal?

signing is still perfectly legal. c&p was NEVER a legal requirement, but the banks forced it on retailers by saying that any fraudulent transaction on non c&p cards would be charged to site...
 
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@PinkPig - true, but the addition of pin entering means that the person recording all the information can so easily just clone the card and then withdraw money...

which is so much easier than card fraud via buying stuff when you have just the card and signature.
 
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It is still infinitely more secure than the old system.
If we hadn't rolled out Chip & Pin guess what - the cards could still have been skimmed.

Your title gives the impression that because of Chip & Pin more money has been lost.
This is misleading - the cards could have been skimmed whatever technology was being used.
Oh and you can hardly blame the whole Chip & Pin system when it's an inside job.

The items in my safety deposit box are rather safe.
If however a bank employee doesn't set any alarms one night and tells the thieves all of the combinations to any/all safes they need to get into my deposit box.
Does this make safety deposit less secure suddenly?
 
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WS_TailGunner said:
signing is still perfectly legal. c&p was NEVER a legal requirement, but the banks forced it on retailers by saying that any fraudulent transaction on non c&p cards would be charged to site...

Ah I see, thanks for the info :)

I know 4 people who had their cards cloned recently!
 
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PinkPig said:
Whatever technology we use, there's always the possibility of someone on the inside switching equipment. In addition, it's nothing to do with the fact that you enter a PIN rather than signing.

its no harder to fit a skimmer to a c&p terminal than it is to fit one to an ATM (apart from it being next to the cashier). i dont think the terminal would need to be removed from site...more the cashier distracted long enough to allow the skimmer to be slotted in...

...could be wrong though...
 
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ive never used chip and pin.. ever since watching the trevor mcdonald program about it.

but ive never used it anyways.

i dont see any problem with getting the cash and paying by cash.
 
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Von Luck said:
So it's effectively the same old cloning scam, nothing new. The major failure is the fact that not all ATMs or retail outlets have switched to chip-only technology, forcing the legacy magnetic stripe to still be used.


but before chip and pin, did the cloners have your pin number so easily?

my guess would be a definate no, but now they can very easily record it when you tap it in if they have a modified box.
 
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lemonkettaz said:
i dont see any problem with getting the cash and paying by cash.

Statistically I'm fairly sure that the chances of you being a victim of crime are far greater if you carry wads of cash around than if you pay using a chip and PIN card!
 
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SidewinderINC said:
but before chip and pin, did the cloners have your pin number so easily?

But, before chip and PIN, when it came to buying expensive things and even getting cashback in a shop, it didn't matter in the slightest whether they had your PIN number or not!
 
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PinkPig said:
But, before chip and PIN, when it came to buying expensive things and even getting cashback in a shop, it didn't matter in the slightest whether they had your PIN number or not!

true, but my point is its much much easier to get money straight out of a cashpoint. and far more discreet too!
the simplicity and discreetness of it has more than likely prompted quite a lot of people to start doing it.

i for one would never do it, but i sure as hell would rather just swipe some money from a cash point than risk going into a shop and buying something!
 
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SidewinderINC said:
but before chip and pin, did the cloners have your pin number so easily?

my guess would be a definate no, but now they can very easily record it when you tap it in if they have a modified box.


As opposed to signature based cards, with your signature carefully hidden away on the back of the card? ;)
 
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