Since when.............

The Edge · 10 May 2006 at 07:28

..........has asking your buyer to pay paypal fees on ebay been against the rules?

I have always done this, in the belief that i don't want to pay twice to get my money and if the buyer wants to use paypal it's their problem, so you can imagine my suprise when two of my listings were pulled and i recieved this:

Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 19:27:17 PDT

Dear theedge.00,

We appreciate that you chose eBay to list the following listing(s):

7618255075 - Canon 70-200 f4 L As new.
7618252579 - Canon 17-40 f4 L As new.

However, your listing was in breach of eBay's Circumvention of eBay
Fees policy and has been removed from eBay. We have credited all
associated fees to your account and notified eBay users associated with the
transaction that it has been cancelled.

We would like to take this opportunity to let you know what part of
your listing is not permitted.

Your listing(s) contains the following information:

If paying by paypal please add 4.

Seller's payment instructions
Paypal users please add 4.

Seller's payment instructions
Paypal users please add 4.

Users may not use systems or techniques to circumvent, or avoid, eBay
fees. Listings or content that circumvent (avoid) fees may provide a
poor buying experience and create an unlevel playing field by penalising
sellers who pay all of their eBay fees. Further, these listings and
content undermine the trust of eBay's marketplace.

Payment surcharges are a form of fee circumvention. eBay has adopted
the following surcharging policy in the interests of ensuring that all
buyers receive clear and accurate pricing information when trading on
eBay.co.uk. This surcharge policy applies only to items listed on
eBay.co.uk.

eBay prohibits surcharging by sellers. Surcharging occurs when sellers
pass the charges they incur for using eBay or third party services such
as payment services onto buyers.

This is all news to me, hence my response:

Message: eBay Listing Removed: Circumvention of eBay Fees (=LS &12362 JM10393135)

I am rather suprised at this action given the amount of time i have been an ebay memeber and the fact that i have always asked paypal users to pay for the service in my auctions.

If a buyer chooses to pay by paypal that is their choice and I do not see why I should pay for their convenience having already paid for both the auction listing and your commision upon sale.

Since payment of paypal fees was clearly stated in both the description and payment instructions i fail to see how it could be misleading and if the buyer doesn't want to pay paypal fees they have the options of either not using paypal or buying from somebody else.

Maybe in future i'll have to start doing what most other people seem to do and load up the postage charge, but to me that seems far worse and more misleading than simply asking users who want to use paypal to pay for it, especially on expensive items like these.

Nismo · 10 May 2006 at 07:39

Been eBay policy for a while now, annoys me that people do it anyway.

If you dont want to pay the (small) fees, dont offer paypal as a payment option.

The Edge · 10 May 2006 at 08:32

Nismo said:
Been eBay policy for a while now, annoys me that people do it anyway.

If you dont want to pay the (small) fees, dont offer paypal as a payment option.

It seems odd that they haven't pulled one of my auctions before these then.

You say it's a small fee, but it isn't on high value items, especially when you take into account the listing fee and commission. At the end of the day it's the customers choice how they pay, and if they don't want to pay an extra surcharge pay by some other method.

Would you rather have the option of paying by cheque instead or have the cost of paypal loaded on the postage bill no matter how you choose to pay so you pay it whether by paypal or whatever?

Still, unfortunately rules is rules. Looks like my postage will be going up instead

bradbcam · 10 May 2006 at 09:09

I have actually been on the oposite end of the paypal fees. Basically bought an item (for £3) didn't pay the paypal fees he was demanding and he sent the item by the lowest postage service possible. Thereby making over £8 on postage - I paid £12 and it only cost him £2 plus a bit of gaffer tape.

I complained but sure as hell fire Ebay did nowt.
I had heard that they were clamping down on all of these minor infractions of their rules though

Le_Petit_Lapin · 10 May 2006 at 09:26

bradbcam said:
I have actually been on the oposite end of the paypal fees. Basically bought an item (for £3) didn't pay the paypal fees he was demanding and he sent the item by the lowest postage service possible. Thereby making over £8 on postage - I paid £12 and it only cost him £2 plus a bit of gaffer tape.

I complained but sure as hell fire Ebay did nowt.
I had heard that they were clamping down on all of these minor infractions of their rules though

Aye, if its under £15 Ebay couldnt care less to be honest.

Cueball · 10 May 2006 at 09:38

Nudge up the postage. Also try to maximize your profit in your sale in order to help cover the costs.

Alchemy · 10 May 2006 at 09:39

I asked for paypal fees a few months ago, and ebay removed the auction. At least they cancelled listing fees as well.

Beansprout · 10 May 2006 at 10:55

The Edge said:
At the end of the day it's the customers choice how they pay

But also....paying by Paypal means you get your money quicker. ie, instantly as opposed to a few days.

Such things cost in the business world and Paypal is effectively offering a business-class service to home users which is why it's not free (unless you use a Personal account).

PinkPig · 10 May 2006 at 12:12

It's been there for a while, it's your responsibiltiy to have looked for it. I don't think it's unfair at all - as a decent seller, you either need to accept the cost for the convenience of using Paypal, or refuse it. Surely you want your buyers to be able to buy your things easily? It doesn't strike me as good buisness practice to want to charge anyway. After all, there isn't any shop out there that charges 2% for credit card payments, is there?

Cody · 10 May 2006 at 18:03

Where I work we charge an admin fee for credit cards.

I have always used PayPal, the way I look at it is, is it less than taking a cheque to the bank every day to pay it in?

It's like people who would rather have a day off work for you to arrange a collection than post it back and have the money reinbursed :confused:

Freefaller · 10 May 2006 at 18:08

Slightly OT: Do you have to pay VAT on ebay fees? A friend asked me, but I wasn't sure. He got a bill from ebay (he's new to it) asking him for £60's worth of VAT? Seems a little wierd, but I don't *do* ebay.

atpbx · 10 May 2006 at 18:18

Freefaller said:
Slightly OT: Do you have to pay VAT on ebay fees? A friend asked me, but I wasn't sure. He got a bill from ebay (he's new to it) asking him for £60's worth of VAT? Seems a little wierd, but I don't *do* ebay.

You have to pay VAT on any service or item invoiced to you by a VAT registered company.

Freefaller · 10 May 2006 at 18:32

atpbx said:
You have to pay VAT on any service or item invoiced to you by a VAT registered company.

aha. Cheers matey. I would have hazarded a guess that ebay is just a company trying to recoup a few expenses and hence have to pay VAT on the services they offer you. It makes sense.

atpbx · 10 May 2006 at 19:03

Freefaller said:
aha. Cheers matey. I would have hazarded a guess that ebay is just a company trying to recoup a few expenses and hence have to pay VAT on the services they offer you. It makes sense.

They have to charge you vat to be able to reclaim the VAT on the services THEY pay for.

Servers, bandwidth, building rental, stationary etc etc etc.
You dont earn VAT you just get it back for business related items and services, the downside of this is that everything you offer as a service or product is required to have VAT paid on it (onless its 0% rated).

Johnny Girth · 10 May 2006 at 19:10

It is extremely gay that ebay charge you twice i.e. when you sell and then when the buyer pays but that's the way it is.

Just crank the postage like everyone does now.

Problem is that if you don't list paypal your item will probably sell for less than it would have if you did list it - about the same amount as you'd be charged by Paypal, only it's more inconvenient.

Freefaller · 10 May 2006 at 19:20

atpbx said:
They have to charge you vat to be able to reclaim the VAT on the services THEY pay for.

Servers, bandwidth, building rental, stationary etc etc etc.
You dont earn VAT you just get it back for business related items and services, the downside of this is that everything you offer as a service or product is required to have VAT paid on it (onless its 0% rated).

Makes sense.

Usel · 10 May 2006 at 19:30

atpbx said:
They have to charge you vat to be able to reclaim the VAT on the services THEY pay for.

Servers, bandwidth, building rental, stationary etc etc etc.
You dont earn VAT you just get it back for business related items and services, the downside of this is that everything you offer as a service or product is required to have VAT paid on it (onless its 0% rated).

They have to be VAT resgistered because they earn more than £45-50,000 in a year. They have no option.

Also ebay is perfectly happy for sellers to charge buyers credit card fee's of 2.5%.

The ONLY reason ebay don't want sellers to charge buyers the paypal charges is because they don't want them put off by using it. If a buyer is put off paying £5 in paypal fee's they are more likely to send a cheque. Something ebay won't be happy about because they loose that extra chunk from the transaction.

The Edge · 10 May 2006 at 23:08

as a decent seller, you either need to accept the cost for the convenience of using Paypal, or refuse it.

As a decent seller i make my terms and conditions clear. If i want to charge for paypal i tell people, and they have the choice of either paying be other means or buying from someone else.there is nothing misleading, i accept paypal but you cover the fees. Until ebay changed their rules that is.

Also how is it more conveniant for the seller? You get your money a few days sooner, but if you've got to go out and post an item banking a cheque is no hardship and if they pay by transfer it's even easier. The main benefit of paypal is to the buyer who gets his item faster and therefore it really should be the buyer that gets the charge.

I've paid to list the item and paid commision to sell it - why should i also pay for someone to buy it? If you go to a proper auction the buyer also has to pay commision so why not ebay?

Usel · 11 May 2006 at 07:23

The Edge said:
I've paid to list the item and paid commision to sell it - why should i also pay for someone to buy it? If you go to a proper auction the buyer also has to pay commision so why not ebay?

It's all swings and roundabouts now on ebay. Since they stopped sellers charging for paypal they stick it on top of the postage charges. For the buyer this isn't all good news, for if they didn't want to use paypal they are now paying the charges for it even if they are paying by cheque and are paying double the surcharge if they pay by credit card.

Nismo · 11 May 2006 at 07:35

Sounds to me like your in a huff because the rules dont suit you anymore.

Plenty of people, including me, welcomed this change. The seller shouldnt be able to make up their own charges, enough of that goes on with eBay postage rates :/