8900 series = r600 competitor

Darkwave · 11 Feb 2007 at 17:21

Shocky-FM said:
Fixed..

The article itself is about the 8900, so why are people pretending that upcoming cards don't exist? :confused:

lay-z-boy said:
r600 isnt out
8900 isnt out
8800 is out

It's out very soon?
It's probably out sooner than we think?
Really?! :rolleyes:

lay-z-boy said:
8800 doesnt have an ati competitor (thats close)

Except R600.

lay-z-boy said:
one assumes that when the r600 gets released the 8900 will get released to compete against it

The 8900 is not going to be the counterpart of R600 though, R600 is the counterpart of the 8800. 8900 will mark the next round of battle, at which point R6?? will be released as a counter.

7800 (G70) = X1800 (R520)
7900 (G71, G70 Refresh) = X1900 (R580, R520 Refresh)
7950 (G71(+), G71 Refresh) = X1950 (R580+, R580 Refresh)
8800 (G80, New Architecture) = ????? (R600, New Architecture)
8900 (G8?, G80 refresh) = ????? (R6??, R600 Refresh)

Simple? Yes, very. Not sure why you don't get it. :confused:

lay-z-boy said:
there, i sort of broke down my post

Thank you, and fixed. ^

Shocky-FM · 11 Feb 2007 at 17:32

Ulfhedjinn said:
The article itself is about the 8900, so why are people pretending that upcoming cards don't exist?

I'm just being realistic, we don't know whats going to directly compete with what yet.

Darkwave · 11 Feb 2007 at 17:33

Shocky-FM said:
I'm just being realistic, we don't know whats going to directly compete with what yet.

So am I, it's going to compete with the R600 refresh.

crashuk · 11 Feb 2007 at 17:35

so if the 8900 is overclocked then would that mean you wont be able to over clock it at home. and as some guy said if 8900 is OC just to keep up with r600 then what would it be like if the r600 was over clocked.

Shocky-FM · 11 Feb 2007 at 17:37

Ulfhedjinn said:
So am I, it's going to compete with the R600 refresh.

Proof?

Darkwave · 11 Feb 2007 at 17:38

Shocky-FM said:
Proof?

8800 is out, R600 is coming out in response.

After that Nvidia will bring out 8900 in response, then AMD will refresh R600 to keep up.

It's common sense and it's what's been happening since before GF6 and X800.

7800 (G70) = X1800 (R520)
7900 (G71, G70 Refresh) = X1900 (R580, R520 Refresh)
7950 (G71(+), G71 Refresh) = X1950 (R580+, R580 Refresh)
8800 (G80, New Architecture) = ????? (R600, New Architecture)
8900 (G8?, G80 Refresh) = ????? (R6??, R600 Refresh)
???? (???, G8? Refresh) = ????? (????, R6?? Refresh)

(Italics indicates unreleased hardware.)

Shocky-FM · 11 Feb 2007 at 17:41

Ulfhedjinn said:
8800 is out, R600 is coming out in response.

After that Nvidia will bring out 8900 in response, then AMD will refresh R600 to keep up.

It's common sense and it's what's been happening in the GPU market for well over a decade now.

Can I borrow your crystal ball?

That’s just guesswork not proof.

Darkwave · 11 Feb 2007 at 17:42

Shocky-FM said:
Can I borrow your crystal ball? That’s just guesswork not proof.

No it's called reasoning. :confused:

I don't see how you don't understand it.

7800 (G70) = X1800 (R520)
7900 (G71, G70 Refresh) = X1900 (R580, R520 Refresh)
7950 (G71(+), G71 Refresh) = X1950 (R580+, R580 Refresh)
8800 (G80, New Architecture) = ????? (R600, New Architecture)
8900 (G8?, G80 Refresh) = ????? (R6??, R600 Refresh)
???? (???, G8? Refresh) = ????? (????, R6?? Refresh)

(Italics indicates unreleased hardware.)

Though, the last refresh may or may not happen. That is totally pulled out of thin-air, they might make a new architecture again instead, but the comparison "table" is still the same.

Firegod · 11 Feb 2007 at 17:46

It'll be interesting to see what this driver does tbh. It's not impossible to think that they have been deliberately holding back on increasing performance in driver releases. Why would they do this? Perhaps to make people think the card can easily be beaten? Kind of a smoke screen? Who knows, but if a driver is released which shows a nice gain I welcome it.

Hell, it's not as if the G80 is a slouch anyway!

Shocky-FM · 11 Feb 2007 at 17:47

Ulfhedjinn said:
No it's called reasoning. I don't see how you don't understand it.

Your opinion, reasoning, or presumptions are not facts or actual evidence.

lay-z-boy · 11 Feb 2007 at 17:58

Ulfhedjinn said:
The article itself is about the 8900, so why are people pretending that upcoming cards don't exist?

It's out very soon?
It's probably out sooner than we think?
Really?!

Except R600.

The 8900 is not going to be the counterpart of R600 though, R600 is the counterpart of the 8800. 8900 will mark the next round of battle, at which point R6?? will be released as a counter.

7800 (G70) = X1800 (R520)
7900 (G71, G70 Refresh) = X1900 (R580, R520 Refresh)
7950 (G71(+), G71 Refresh) = X1950 (R580+, R580 Refresh)
8800 (G80, New Architecture) = ????? (R600, New Architecture)
8900 (G8?, G80 refresh) = ????? (R6??, R600 Refresh)

Simple? Yes, very. Not sure why you don't get it.

Thank you, and fixed. ^

wth is your problem, you seem to overreact to what anyone says?

I can get picky too but you aren't proving anything new to me by listing gpu's.

The 8800 was released back in Nov and ati should have had a competitor ready back then, now that the r600 is approaching the 8800 gets a tune up to combat the r600 so the 8800 isn't the r600's competition, the 8900 is.
The g80 isn't being refreshed, rather just pre-overclocked.

w3bbo · 11 Feb 2007 at 18:03

Ulfhedjinn said:
No it's called reasoning. I don't see how you don't understand it.

7800 (G70) = X1800 (R520)
7900 (G71, G70 Refresh) = X1900 (R580, R520 Refresh)
7950 (G71(+), G71 Refresh) = X1950 (R580+, R580 Refresh)
8800 (G80, New Architecture) = ????? (R600, New Architecture)
8900 (G8?, G80 Refresh) = ????? (R6??, R600 Refresh)
???? (???, G8? Refresh) = ????? (????, R6?? Refresh)

(Italics indicates unreleased hardware.)

Though, the last refresh may or may not happen. That is totally pulled out of thin-air, they might make a new architecture again instead, but the comparison "table" is still the same.

ATI released the 1950 in 'response' to the 7950GX2...and failed imo, who's to say it aint gonna be the same now. I sincerely hope it is faster and it may well be faster when its released but until we have some solid truthfull benchmarks anyone who claims r600 is 'faster' is guestimating at best. Imo (this is a guestimate

) the r600 has suffered the delays due to underestimating the power of the 8800gtx and has since had to go back to the drawing board and revise its model to be able to 'beat' the GTX. As said, I hope it does but lets not get carried away without any factual based proof.

Darkwave · 11 Feb 2007 at 18:09

lay-z-boy said:
wth is your problem, you seem to overreact to what anyone says?

"WTH is my problem"? Who's over-reacting? :rolleyes:

I am simply discussing which card is the counterpart of which, you're the one who seems to be getting wound up.

lay-z-boy said:
I can get picky too but you aren't proving anything new to me by listing gpu's.

That's my entire point? It's nothing new. :confused:

That's how we know which is a competitor to which, by looking at the history.

lay-z-boy said:
The 8800 was released back in Nov and ati should have had a competitor ready back then, now that the r600 is approaching the 8800 gets a tune up to combat the r600 so the 8800 isn't the r600's competition, the 8900 is.

R600 is late, we know that. I don't see your point here, but if it's that R600 is any less of a counterpart to G80 just because it's a few months late, then you're truly showing how green you lean.

lay-z-boy said:
The g80 isn't being refreshed, rather just pre-overclocked.

You mean like how the 7900GTX was basically a 7800GTX at 650MHz with the same 8:24:24:16 core configuration?

w3bbo said:
ATI released the 1950 in 'response' to the 7950GX2...and failed imo, who's to say it aint gonna be the same now. I sincerely hope it is faster and it may well be faster when its released but until we have some solid truthfull benchmarks anyone who claims r600 is 'faster' is guestimating at best. Imo (this is a guestimate) the r600 has suffered the delays due to underestimating the power of the 8800gtx and has since had to go back to the drawing board and revise its model to be able to 'beat' the GTX. As said, I hope it does but lets not get carried away without any factual based proof.

Aye the X1950s were the generational ATI counterpart to the 7950s (7950GT/X1950Pro-XT and 7950GX2/X1950 Crossfire), not debating which side had the better product though.

Same reason I am just saying that R600 is the counterpart to G80, without even speculating which will be better.

Tommy B · 11 Feb 2007 at 18:10

This constant product innovation between Nvidia and ATI has put me off PC gaming completely. I can't afford to pay £300 a time, sorry £500 a time (it seems to go up every time). I can't help but think a monopoly in the graphics card industry might actually be beneficial in the long term.

It's a shame really, I used to enjoy gaming but I haven't picked up a game in several months now.

lay-z-boy · 11 Feb 2007 at 18:14

Ulfhedjinn said:
"WTH is my problem"? Who's over-reacting?

I am simply discussing which card is the counterpart of which, you're the one who seems to be getting wound up.

That's my entire point? It's nothing new.

That's how we know which is a competitor to which, by looking at the history.

R600 is late, we know that. I don't see your point here, but if it's that R600 is any less of a counterpart to G80 just because it's a few months late, then you're truly showing how green you lean.

You mean like how the 7900GTX was basically a 7800GTX at 650MHz with the same 8:24:24:16 core configuration?

- right back at ya

im far too relaxed to get wound up ;D

Combat squirrel · 11 Feb 2007 at 18:27

Combat squirrel said:
that's very annoying, why release a '8900' which the report implies uses a G80 the same as the 8800 boards, but the only difference will be a driver tweak, why dont they just enable the driver tweak for current 8800 boards ? money grabbin *insert comment of choice here*

On the other side of coin, I wonder if 8800 users could flash bios to a '8900' bios and reep the benefits

No one has commented on the fact it (the report) indicates its still a G80 core, not G81 or something, any more info on this ? stuff said thus far is inconsequential of course 8900 will be what 7900 is to 7800, but to what extent ? I imagine a 681 million transistor core would be VERY difficult to 'rewire' (like they did with 7900),I think that because of this it will still be G80 upclocked with a different bios, if we can get this bios and down clock the speed to 'normal' 8800 speeds I reckon it would be enough

However why nvidia carnt use this driver tweak on the 8800 is beyond me (they may well do ya never know)

lay-z-boy · 11 Feb 2007 at 18:38

That's because we don't know if its is a a new/tweaked core or not however im guessing 99.9% its a g80, just overclocked

J.D · 11 Feb 2007 at 19:03

Ulfhedjinn said:
8800 is out, R600 is coming out in response.

After that Nvidia will bring out 8900 in response, then AMD will refresh R600 to keep up.

It's common sense and it's what's been happening since before GF6 and X800.

7800 (G70) = X1800 (R520)
7900 (G71, G70 Refresh) = X1900 (R580, R520 Refresh)
7950 (G71(+), G71 Refresh) = X1950 (R580+, R580 Refresh)
8800 (G80, New Architecture) = ????? (R600, New Architecture)
8900 (G8?, G80 Refresh) = ????? (R6??, R600 Refresh)
???? (???, G8? Refresh) = ????? (????, R6?? Refresh)

(Italics indicates unreleased hardware.)

What about the 7800 refresh? The 512mb version. That was brought out to beat the x1800

.

Also the 7950 (2x 7900gt's) to compete with X1950 :rolleyes:

. C'mon. That's like ATI having 2x X1900's slapped together which didn't happen so the 7950 was all on it's own with that one.

Also all the cards on Nvidia's side pre 8800 had problems with AA & HDR working together and also much lesser image quality. Also ATI are better with quality settings at the highest resolutions.

These things could throw your list into chaos.

I think the R600 will beat the 8800 no problem and might still take the 8900. The reason I'm saying this is that ATI had better image quality to start with and easily ironed out AA & HDR problems that were plaguing Nvidia. So in all honesty ATI have less of a hill to climb to take that crown back.

Who knows though and only time will tell. These are my estimations only and I have no inside knowledge.

Darkwave · 11 Feb 2007 at 19:30

J.D said:
What about the 7800 refresh? The 512mb version. That was brought out to beat the x1800 .

The 512MB 7800GTX was just a 7800GTX with an overclock, but is still the same family as it has a G70 core. Just like the 7900GTX was just an overclocked 7800GTX, but the core on that somehow got the name G71.

Don't ask me about that one, ask Nvidia, but 7800 is to X1800 as 7900 is to X1900.

J.D said:
Also the 7950 (2x 7900gt's) to compete with X1950 . C'mon. That's like ATI having 2x X1900's slapped together which didn't happen so the 7950 was all on it's own with that one.

Why does everyone keep forgetting that the 7950GT exists? Probably because it's rubbish price/performance?

J.D said:
Also all the cards on Nvidia's side pre 8800 had problems with AA & HDR working together and also much lesser image quality. Also ATI are better with quality settings at the highest resolutions.

These things could throw your list into chaos.

This isn't about image quality or even performance, it's about generation. ATI has reigned supreme in terms of image quality until the release of G80, and it's still the king of price/performance, all I'm saying is that to say that G80 and R600 aren't like-for-like is nothing less than calling a spade a trowel.

J.D said:
I think the R600 will beat the 8800 no problem and might still take the 8900. The reason I'm saying this is that ATI had better image quality to start with and easily ironed out AA & HDR problems that were plaguing Nvidia. So in all honesty ATI have less of a hill to climb to take that crown back.

Nothing I have said so far has been about performance or image quality, just about comparing cards apples to apples by generation (G80 = R600 in terms of generation and nothing else.)

I don't really care which wins either, I'm not biased toward either company and not planning to upgrade for a while anyway (but I always say that and it always works out the same.)

Hitman_Leon · 11 Feb 2007 at 19:45

erm bet I can draw faster with crayons than any of the cards released or due for release because they dont have hands, but they might fix that in a driver update or hardware refresh, these threads make my day, funny little joke threads, do some of you fellers sit awake all night thinking this stuff up hehehe. Since cave men built a fire the guy in the other cave has been saying his fire is bigger than his neighbour and his neighbour has been saying I upped my game pal I have a bigger fire in the pipe just wait and see, and so it go's on, funny though.