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10GB vram enough for the 3080? Discuss..

Soldato
Joined
27 Feb 2015
Posts
9,425
Last night I did chapter 12 on FF7 Remake and I thought some of the textures stood out as horrible looking compared to adjacent ones. I then checked my PS5 recordings, and sure enough the textures are better quality, my PC run of that chapter was mixing in PS4 quality textures with PS5 one's. I expect was a lack of VRAM to stream in the higher resolution textures, I dont think this was intentional to make the PC an inferior build of the game.

Texture streaming is kind of like dynamic resolution scaling for textures, it allows performance to be maintained with less hardware resources at the expense of image quality. (stutters aside), this is something reviewers in the media are going to have get used to measuring as well as real resolution, digital foundry I think are currently the only reviewer who does this properly.

I have great news though.

I discovered if I put the game on spindle, all stutters are gone, absolutely everywhere. This seems to back up what has already been discovered in that the textures are simply loading in too quick and causing a bottleneck somewhere. Since spindles are naturally slower there is no such bottleneck as the spindle becomes the bottleneck. This might be the problem that directstorage actually resolves when its released. No idea why only some systems have this issue but its a breakthrough.
 
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Soldato
Joined
27 Feb 2015
Posts
9,425
I have, what did I miss?

My posts?

I will summarise.

There is a problem in FF7 Remake, one of the most talked about games in the last month, where it has performance issues caused by potentially multiple things, one of those things been not enough VRAM to hold textures in memory so has to do a lot of streaming in and out of textures. Someone discovered if they disable streaming and increase the texture pool size, so textures load for an entire area at once, sector 7 in the game can be played with 19 gigs of VRAM with no streaming of textures needed.

I have since also discovered even if performance stutters are set aside or resolved (with spindle), lower quality textures stay in place compared to the PS5 version of the game in some demanding areas. I am waiting for someone with a 3090 to test what happens on the same part of the game with a larger texture pool.

The game is a bad port, I think all this investigation into how it loads textures etc. has came about because they ported over the PS5 aggressive loading speeds (it does load very fast on PC almost as fast as PS5) without direct storage API to support it. I do think if they ported over the PS4 code it may well have worked fine even with low VRAM, with the only consequence been lower quality textures on low VRAM cards.

So its not a entire VRAM limited example, but it is an example of if there was more VRAM then you would get better quality textures and potentially no stutters.
 
Caporegime
Joined
12 Jul 2007
Posts
37,334
Location
United Kingdom
After all this time, has anybody ever found 10GB on a 3080 to be a real problem, Godfall type outliers excepted?

And if so, links would be appreciated.
Far Cry 6 was raised by a couple of the German tech sites (pcgameshardware and computerbase) as problematic with 8GB/10GB cards in terms of FPS drops and inconsistent frame times. 11,12,16 and 24GB cards were not affected by this.
vEBh4id.png
However, users of a Geforce RTX 3080 or graphics card with even less memory should be careful - at the latest in Ultra HD, the Nvidia graphics card collapses under the data load. On the other hand, either the deactivation of the HD textures or a lower resolution helps
 
Associate
Joined
8 Oct 2020
Posts
1,119
Last night I did chapter 12 on FF7 Remake and I thought some of the textures stood out as horrible looking compared to adjacent ones. I then checked my PS5 recordings, and sure enough the textures are better quality, my PC run of that chapter was mixing in PS4 quality textures with PS5 one's. I expect was a lack of VRAM to stream in the higher resolution textures, I dont think this was intentional to make the PC an inferior build of the game.

Texture streaming is kind of like dynamic resolution scaling for textures, it allows performance to be maintained with less hardware resources at the expense of image quality. (stutters aside), this is something reviewers in the media are going to have get used to measuring as well as real resolution, digital foundry I think are currently the only reviewer who does this properly.

Maybe it'll stabalise after a couple patches. I read a review that noted the stutters and mentioned FC6, ICARUS and Halo Infinite nothing that FF7 had fewer stutters - I found it funny how it was noted alongside other incomplete games.

In terms of resource usage, any relatively high-end PC should outdo the PS5, you just need a reference for what settings, scaling, etc. the PS5 is using. Regarding the stutters, one big difference between the PS5 and PC is that the PS5 likely has better component integration as they're using an SoC, which might add relevance to your point regarding texture streaming.
 
Associate
Joined
8 Oct 2020
Posts
1,119
Far Cry 6 was raised by a couple of the German tech sites (pcgameshardware and computerbase) as problematic with 8GB/10GB cards in terms of FPS drops and inconsistent frame times. 11,12,16 and 24GB cards were not affected by this.
vEBh4id.png

Seems they're the only site who had this issue? Other major reviewers managed fine based on the reviews I saw.
 
Caporegime
Joined
4 Jun 2009
Posts
26,454
Can the mods rename this thread to 'I didn't get an RRP 3080 support group'?

:cry:

Or the "I've still got £750 in my pocket towards a next gen from not having to purchase a 3090" Thread

:cry:

My posts?

I will summarise.

There is a problem in FF7 Remake, one of the most talked about games in the last month, where it has performance issues caused by potentially multiple things, one of those things been not enough VRAM to hold textures in memory so has to do a lot of streaming in and out of textures. Someone discovered if they disable streaming and increase the texture pool size, so textures load for an entire area at once, sector 7 in the game can be played with 19 gigs of VRAM with no streaming of textures needed.

I have since also discovered even if performance stutters are set aside or resolved (with spindle), lower quality textures stay in place compared to the PS5 version of the game in some demanding areas. I am waiting for someone with a 3090 to test what happens on the same part of the game with a larger texture pool.

The game is a bad port, I think all this investigation into how it loads textures etc. has came about because they ported over the PS5 aggressive loading speeds (it does load very fast on PC almost as fast as PS5) without direct storage API to support it. I do think if they ported over the PS4 code it may well have worked fine even with low VRAM, with the only consequence been lower quality textures on low VRAM cards.

So its not a entire VRAM limited example, but it is an example of if there was more VRAM then you would get better quality textures and potentially no stutters.

Again, I can't comment too much on the game first hand, however, having a quick google, it seems the stutter is there even on cards with more vram, as mentioned could be an unreal engine 4 thing as this happens in a few of them games based on ue 4, I noticed it with kena when new areas where loading (DF also pointed it out as being an UE 4 thing):


No mention of texture loading issues from a quick look though.

But again, given the title it has of "being consider the worst port for pc in a long time"..... obviously if devs. spent some time on it, they could fix any issues as had happened with hzd and far cry 6.

Far Cry 6 was raised by a couple of the German tech sites (pcgameshardware and computerbase) as problematic with 8GB/10GB cards in terms of FPS drops and inconsistent frame times. 11,12,16 and 24GB cards were not affected by this.
vEBh4id.png

Still banging that drum? Even though it was fixed months back.... :cry:

Maybe it'll stabalise after a couple patches. I read a review that noted the stutters and mentioned FC6, ICARUS and Halo Infinite nothing that FF7 had fewer stutters - I found it funny how it was noted alongside other incomplete games.

In terms of resource usage, any relatively high-end PC should outdo the PS5, you just need a reference for what settings, scaling, etc. the PS5 is using. Regarding the stutters, one big difference between the PS5 and PC is that the PS5 likely has better component integration as they're using an SoC, which might add relevance to your point regarding texture streaming.

FC 6 - ever since the fix by the devs, no stutters, at least not that I've noticed
icarus - if playing SP only, there will be little to no stutters and most of the stutters are from lack of grunt and poor optimisation especially in dx 12 mode (dx 11 runs much better), MP/coop is rather bad though
halo infinite - zero stutters on my end

Thanks for the replies, so a couple of games then, with issues.

Only game from my experience to have caused stutters purely because of "vram" is cyberpunk with 4k-8k texture packs, removing a couple solved this though.

Seems they're the only site who had this issue? Other major reviewers managed fine based on the reviews I saw.

He has taken that from when the game first came out and had an "acknowledged" issue by ubi since then with regards to vram management and textures not rendering/loading properly, ubi fixed it a couple months back, seems they started loading some stuff into the RAM usage to help fix the issue as with the patch, ram usage jumped up by 10GB. Watch jokers video on it, taking a screenshot brought his fps back from 5 fps to 60/70+ :cry:
 
Associate
Joined
8 Oct 2020
Posts
1,119
He has taken that from when the game first came out and had an "acknowledged" issue by ubi since then with regards to vram management and textures not rendering/loading properly, ubi fixed it a couple months back, seems they started loading some stuff into the RAM usage to help fix the issue as with the patch, ram usage jumped up by 10GB. Watch jokers video on it, taking a screenshot brought his fps back from 5 fps to 60/70+ :cry:

Yea, you can see the trend with these justification posts - all of the frequently brought up games are half-finished. The only things Ubisoft are spending money on at the moment is FC6 DLC and FC7, which will be another joke @ £60+.
 
Caporegime
Joined
12 Jul 2007
Posts
37,334
Location
United Kingdom
Going into more details, Ubisoft has made some changes for the HD Texture Pack on PC that should decrease the blurriness that appeared for some players when using the HD Texture Pack. However, the team still recommends using this HD Texture Pack only if you have 12GB of VRAM. So yeah, those with RTX3080s should still avoid using it (especially if they are playing at 4K).
PC
  • HD Texture Pack — Some assets appearing blurry
Developer comment: We have made some changes for the HD Texture Pack on PC that should decrease the blurriness that appeared for some players when using the HD Texture Pack. When looking into these reports, we are seeing players using graphics cards with less than 12 GB of VRAM available. When using the HD Texture Pack with less than the minimum required VRAM available, the performance and the look of the game can be worse than without the pack.
Here is a 3080 user, running with the patch, 4K max settings, experiencing texture quality drops.
Far Cry 6 4K HDR, HD Textures Not Loading all the Time probably due to RTX 10 GB limit . Game it does look great at times.
 
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Caporegime
Joined
4 Jun 2009
Posts
26,454
Any timestamps for where these low texture issues are? Had a quick skim through video, didn't see anything immediately sticking out? Other than the shocking LOD draw distance (which plagues all ubi games and setups...)
 
Associate
Joined
8 Oct 2020
Posts
1,119
Any timestamps for where these low texture issues are? Had a quick skim through video, didn't see anything immediately sticking out? Other than the shocking LOD draw distance (which plagues all ubi games and setups...)

Agreed. YouTube compression aside, I watched a couple sequences and didn't notice anything. Would be interesting to see whether DLDSR improves the rough edges in FC6 - it's working really well in RDR2.
 
Soldato
Joined
7 Dec 2010
Posts
6,040
Location
Leeds
Ohh dear....


GeForce Now RTX 3080 Cloud Review vs xCloud/Stadia - The Best Streaming Solution?


Even the cloud 3080 known as the A10G has 24GB GDDR6 VRAM...:eek: So does Nvidia think 10GB is really enough, while their 3080 parts for their cloud service have 24GB VRAM ?:confused:

BQb0Fza.jpg




ohh yes these need adding ..

One for @TNA


^...CLICK ME...^

and

One for @Nexus18


^...CLICK ME...^

Reality...


^...CLICK ME...^
 
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Soldato
Joined
30 Aug 2014
Posts
4,152
Far Cry 6 was raised by a couple of the German tech sites (pcgameshardware and computerbase) as problematic with 8GB/10GB cards in terms of FPS drops and inconsistent frame times. 11,12,16 and 24GB cards were not affected by this.
vEBh4id.png
I think it's quite funny given all the issues due to not enough VRAM on the 3080 10GB that the '3080' on Nvidia's cloud gaming platform, Geforce NOW, has 24GB of VRAM and you don't have to pay thousands of pounds to get it.

Edit: someone already posted this, but I knew about it before the Digital Foundry video because I dabble in Geforce NOW and Ubisoft's Assassin's Creed Valhalla conveniently tells you CPU and GPU specs :cry:.
 
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