14th Gen "Raptor Lake Refresh"

[Dave2150]

11th gen was absolute rubbish , lost to the 10900k on most games and was a terrible upgrade from a 10900k and possibly a regression depending on what you played The 14900k is not much better at all but at least it either matches or exceeds the 13900k and doesn't offer less performance in any of the games.... 14th gen is marginally better than 11th gen release although in reality both were a waste of time

14900k is literally the 13900k, it's the same CPU. I won't debate you further, enjoy

 

[Dave2150]

Seems like it's only worth upgrading to a 14th gen if you have a low end (4-6 P-core) 12th generation CPU. Or if building a new system.

13th generation was better than I expected, but for the 14th gen, there was no more room for improvement, beyond a couple hundred Mhz (and some additional E-cores, if you value these).

There's a pretty strong argument to just wait until Q4 2024 to build either a Arrow Lake or Zen 5 system, on the respective new platforms.

I think AMD may have a slight edge for a few months, because the AM5 platform will be reasonably mature by the end of 2024.

Zen5 is on AM5, which won't be a 'new' platform at that point. I believe AMD only committed to releasing Zen5 on AM5, with Zen6 being a new platform. All could change though!

Arrow lake on LGA 1851 will be completely new, and supposedly will support another new architecture/generation of CPU. Lets hope the new generation isn't just +100Mhz and locked down software though

 

[Dave2150]

Zen 6 is likely to be on AM5 also.

This slide suggests AM5 socket support until 2026. New CPUs will release on an annual cadence, suggesting that Zen 6 will follow in 2025, unless it is delayed.

AM5 is still pretty new, and I doubt they would change the socket without a good reason.

There's no draft specification for DDR6 yet (probably will be drafted in 2024), I don't think DDR6 will be available on consumer desktop PCs until 2026 at the earliest, as companies like Samsung aren't due to begin production until then.

I think both Intel and AMD will wait until DDR6 is ready for mass production, before introducing new platforms.

AMD has only committed to launching Zen5 on AM5. No word of Zen6, so it's just pure conjecture.

 

[Dave2150]

Intel has turned FPS gains into FFS with the 14th gen:

Spoiler: Gains!

Although the minimum FPS gains are a bit better:

Intel Core i9-14900K Review - Reaching for the Performance Crown

Core i9-14900K is Intel's new flagship with clock speeds of up to 6 GHz. It's actually clocked even higher than the 13900KS, thanks to an extra 100 MHz when more than two cores are active. Our review confirms that Raptor Lake Refresh is amazing for both applications and gaming, if you can live...

www.techpowerup.com

13900k, 14900k are identical performance wise to Zen4xd in games. No human could tell them apart in a blind test. AM5 is the better platform at this point in time though.

Only thing Intel wins at is idle/low power usage, where it's around 25w lower than Zen4, hoping AMD can fix that with Zen5.

 

[Dave2150]

I would wait till black friday regardless of what you end up choosing. If its gaming only though, the 7800x3d is a stonker of a chip right now. If i wasn't stuck on Intel platform i would have gone for that.

Only 8 cores though, making it struggle unless you ONLY run a game with no other applications at the same time. All the reviews literally have fresh w11 installed and the game. Nothing else.

In the real world where it's common to have chrome with a bunch of tabs open, youtube, discord, spotify, teams etc, a noticeable reduction in performance occurs, which the 12 or 16 core CPU's deal with much better.

 

[Dave2150]

12900k to 13900k was an acceptable jump. 13900k and 14900k are the same CPU's, end of story

 

[Dave2150]

Last time i slugged it out was back on a 3770k , literally missed everything inbetween and went straight to a 9900k, can't see myself doing that again.

Last time I slugged it out was with the i7 920. Kept that (heavily OC'd) until the 6700k. Was an epic upgrade!

 

[Dave2150]

Hoping for some juicy Arrow Lake leaks soon. To me, 14th gen is the most disappointing and pathetic release from Intel that I can think of. Never before have they released the exact same CPU (13900k vs 14900k), as in exactly the same die, and called it a new generation.

Closest I can think of was Haswell > Devils Canyon (4770k - 4790k). That wasn't a new generation and just a refresh, but at least you got better TIM installed and higher clocks.

 

[Dave2150]

Shots fired, anyone agree with AMDs take.

X3D software scheduler for 7950X3d says hello

It's all marketing fluff though. TLDR is, both Zen4X3D and 13th/14th gen perform 99.9% identicaly in games at 1440P, 4k.

Intel uses double or triple the power at stock (in games), while consuming 20W less at idle/low workloads. AM5 platform is better, due to having one final new architecture upcoming with Zen5 and also having more PCIE lanes.

AMD do need to improve boot times though. With both my Z690 Maximus Hero and x670e crosshair hero on latest BIOS, my intel system boots 3-4 times faster.

 

[Dave2150]

Need to configure you AMD rig better, here is my 7800X3D/Asus B650E-E from a restart.

Latest BIOS update definitely increased my boot time on my AMD rig. Not got the time with work to troubleshoot it currently, once it does boot I get the expected top tier performance with my 4090.

 

[Dave2150]

Latest BIOS update definitely increased my boot time on my AMD rig. Not got the time with work to troubleshoot it currently, once it does boot I get the expected top tier performance with my 4090.

Had a moment to troubleshoot, got my BIOS time down from 41 seconds (!) to 13 seconds. Had to turn on "Context Restore" in DRAM timings submenu. Was on "Auto" by default. Latest BIOS must not enable this for my setup, for some strange reason, as I used to get ~13 seconds on earlier BIOS builds.

 

[Dave2150]

14900KS leaked

Intel Core i9-14900KS 6.2 GHz processor spotted in first prebuilt systems with DDR4 memory - VideoCardz.com

Core i9-14900KS 6.2 GHz CPU in first systems A retailer in Israel is said to be offering the first systems with Intel’s unreleased Core i9-14900KS CPU. Intel is no doubt preparing a KS Special Edition variant of its flagship desktop CPU known as 14900K. These chips are highly binned models...

videocardz.com

If true, impressive binning from Intel. I really doubted we'd see such a CPU. These will have to be god tier bins to achieve 6.2Ghz long enough for benchmarks to pass/reviewers to reflect performance gains.

I'll get one, as will be a decent bump from my just above average clocking 13900K. Will still keep my 7950X3D in my gaming rig though most likely, depends how cold it gets this Winter

 

[Dave2150]

same CPU as the 13900K mate

Joking aside i will be grabbing one as well and looking to direct die cool it same as my 13900k , looking forward to having a play so fingers crossed it gets released

Yeah it's still the worst new generation Intel ever released (excluding the i7), as identical in architecture and no IPC increase. Frequency boost from my 13900K will be noticeable though, plus fun to play with new toys

 

[Dave2150]

6.2GHz isn't really much of a performance boost over stock :s and from what I've seen so far if your cooling is sufficient 6.2GHz boost should be possible on a lot of the non KS chips.

By the same logic, 6.4Ghz would probably also be doable on the higher binned KS parts, if cooling if sufficient.

 

[Dave2150]

which we warned you about but you bought anyway

Get a load of this

 

[Dave2150]

6.2 all core for gaming loads should be possible considering if you have a good 13900k it can run at 6ghz all core for gaming loads if your cooling setup is sufficient you you utilise TVB properly which is exactly what Bang4buck does with his so no reason why the 14900KS couldn't do 6.2 under gaming loads if cooling is sufficient and its some sort of god tier bin which they should be... Heavy work loads like Cinebench not a chance imo

Imagine the power draw with 6.2Ghz all core

 

[Dave2150]

Intel are scum for not including the 12th or AT LEAST 13th gen CPU's to APO.. Complete scum.

I suspect they will eventually - they're just trying to sell some 14th gen CPU's first.

 

[Dave2150]

Looks like OCUK has started to drop the prices of 14th gen... not by much though mind you.

Between 2-5%

We'll see some crazy price reductions once Zen5 launches. Arrow Lake will probably be massively delayed, as it's intel's first mainstream desktop attempt at chiplets etc.

Highly suspect Intel will greatly expand game compatibility with Application Performance Optimization (APO) and also open it up to 12th and 13th gen when (or just before) Zen5 launches, to claw back some performance in reviews etc.

 

[Dave2150]

Intel to roll out 14th Gen's game optimization software to older 12/13th Gen hybrid CPUs after all

That's an unexpected change of heart.

www.pcgamer.com

As I predicted (see quote below), though I thought Intel would wait for Zen5 to launch, to rain on their parade :d

We'll see some crazy price reductions once Zen5 launches. Arrow Lake will probably be massively delayed, as it's intel's first mainstream desktop attempt at chiplets etc.

Highly suspect Intel will greatly expand game compatibility with Application Performance Optimization (APO) and also open it up to 12th and 13th gen when (or just before) Zen5 launches, to claw back some performance in reviews etc.

 

[Dave2150]

well considering it only supports a tiny number of games its not that much of a feature atm.

What a positive response

In the article, they state the list of supported games is now up to 14:

"Intel says it'll have 14 games in total validated for APO by the next release, though that's across both desktop and mobile processors that support APO."

I imagine it'll be a long list over the next 12 months, as E cores aren't going away.