14th Gen "Raptor Lake Refresh"

[Dave2150]

Not quite ML or AL but Noctua showcases an air cooler which could keep an Intel Sapphire Rapids Xeon w9-3495X cool while it pulled 700W:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1645805196545785857

I guess those tiny industrial fans can cool a lot too but server rooms are silly loud; this at least looks it wouldn't need ear defenders.

Have to say that 700W CPUs are definitely a worrying trend. Seems Intel are going back down the P4 brute-force route. Although to be fair, that CPU "only" has an official power of 420W:

Intel® Xeon® w9-3495X Processor (105M Cache, 1.90 GHz) Product Specifications

Intel® Xeon® w9-3495X Processor (105M Cache, 1.90 GHz) quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec codes and more.

ark.intel.com

700W on air is impressive. Would like to know the weight of the heatsink though! We'll be seeing Intel's next socket have 8 mounting holes soon

 

[Dave2150]

Intel confirms “Adamantine” L4 cache for Meteor Lake​

Source: https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-confirms-adamantine-l4-cache-for-meteor-lake

Intel has already confirmed the use of Level 4 caches for its upcoming System on a Chip codenamed Meteor Lake. This was first reported by Phoronix in the recent Linux patches. Other than confirming the return of L4 cache on processors, similar to eDRAM that we had on the Intel Broadwell platform, the details on Meteor Lake implementations are missing.

As it turns out, Intel had already filed a patent that may explain the use of such cache. According to the patent from December 2020, the ‘next-generation SoC architecture’ aka Meteor Lake is to feature ‘on-package caches’. In other words, the Adamantine cache would be part of the base tile that could be accessed by any of the building blocks of next-gen SoC.

Meteor Lake will fully embrace the hybrid architecture combining five different tiles: CPU, SoC, GPU, I/O and base tile. The Adamantine cache would offer much faster access time than any typical cache like L3, which is typically part of the CPU tile.

As explained by Intel, the main purpose of L4 cache is to improve boot optimization and increase security around the host CPU. Furthermore, the L4 cache would preserve the cache at reset, leading to improved loading times that would otherwise have to go through all boot/reset cycles.

Meteor lake is such a big change for Intel, I wonder if it'll be able to compete with Raptor Lake/Zen4. It could take a few generations for their chiplet technology to achieve better performance than their current, monolithic dies.

 

[Dave2150]

I7 will likely be the star of the show as it will be an Arrow Lake chip. I didn't realise there's a planned refresh though, thought we were heading straight to the next chip.

Still, will be interesting to see how much of an uplift comes along.

Shame about the need to change boards but then again if you want faster ram then not much choice anyway?

True, the i7 will likely be the best performance/price ratio this time around, over the i5. i9 being for bragging rights more than anything.

 

[Dave2150]

I'm tempted with 14th gen, the cost will be mad though. Oh well, got to go ddr5 sometime i spose.

DDR5 prices will be amazing on 14th gen release, they're already much better than we're around a year from release, according to current rumours.

 

[Dave2150]

Yes I am waiting for 14th gen too, from 12700KF to 14700K would be a nice upgrade in both efficiency and performance. Will stay on DDR4 though, see no reason to need to upgrade entire platform if the socket still supports 14th gen which it should. Hell even currently my benchmarks match up to DDR5 systems with the same CPU and GPU combo.

Also, this news just caught my feed:

Intel to drop the “i” moniker in upcoming CPU rebrand

Intel Corporation will drop the “i” branding from it’s next generation CPUs, according to leaked benchmarks

boringtextreviews.com

How silly....

LGA1700 ends with Raptor Lake refresh. 14th and 15th gen are on a new socket, LGA-1851, which is DDR5 only.

14th gen is intel's first chipset attempt, perhaps it'll be amazing on launch but I suspect it'll have quite a few caveats.

 

[Dave2150]

Oh damn I thought 1700 got 2 generations worth of support after 12th gen :/

Technically it gets two upgrades, 13th gen and the Raptor Lake refresh. Who knows, perhaps we'll see a 13970k with much lower power consumption and higher clocks.

 

[Dave2150]

That makes sense, so just keep an ear out for the last release for LGA1700 - I'll go that route. The 13700K is not enough of an upgrade to warrant the price increase vs a 12700K as well as the increased power consumption, so hoping the refresh is of the more efficient variety like how 12th gen is. I want to get another CPU upgrade into this build as that's what I've been able to do with all builds for decades.

Makes sense. I'm very curious at how much performance they can wrangle out of Raptor Lake at this point. Some have compared it to 4770k/4790k (haswell to Devil's Canyon) - though I think Intel need to do more than that for it to be meaningful.

 

[Dave2150]

I think I’ll be doing what Mrk does and upgrade from 12700k to whatever the best cpu is for the z690.

Z690's been amazing for me fair play, zero issues, rock solid stability. Used 12900k, 13900k and half a dozen different RAM kits.

 

[Dave2150]

When does 14th gen launch ?

Q1-Q2 2024 - long way off. Think that's why they were forced to do a Raptor Lake refresh before then, on LGA1700.

 

[Dave2150]

2024 or 2023? :
Intel last week told investors "Meteor Lake product on Intel 4 is ramping production wafer starts for an expected launch in the second half of 2023."
Or will that be Laptops only?

For desktop it's 2024 according to latest leaks.

They might have 14th gen on mobile at the end of this year just to satisfy investors and tick a box - but no high power desktop parts.

 

[Dave2150]

Intel Meteor Lake and Arrow Lake overview suggests up to 20% IPC uplift vs Raptor Lake for ARL and single-digit gain for MTL​

Source: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel...L-and-single-digit-gain-for-MTL.713356.0.html

Meteor Lake and Arrow Lake CPUs are expected to share the “15th gen” moniker as the former will allegedly only target the mainstream Core i5 buyers while the enthusiasts will be served by the latter. According to a recent leak from RedGamingTech, the P-cores on Meteor Lake and Arrow Lake CPUs will bring a single-digit and up to 20% IPC gain vs Intel Raptor Lake respectively.

Looking like Arrow Lake (15th gen) may be the one to go for if you're looking for a decent performance jump. This leak also suggests no 8P core parts for 14th gen, which was first leaked over a year ago.

 

[Dave2150]

New MLID video

His claims:

14th Gen: All 14th Gen desktop chips are a Raptor Lake refresh and it launches between August and October 2023

* Remains as up to 8 P core and 16 E core

* Has only single digit gain in single thread over 13th th Gen but larger multithread gains.

* Due to new voltage controller, higher clocks can be extracted - rumour to be between 6.2ghz and 6.5ghz in single core

* For laptop 14th gen uses Meteor Lake architecture and the reason is that the main selling point for Meteor Lake is its iGPU- this is because 14th Gen has a very large gain in performance per watt for the onboard iGPU and according to MLID it means that laptop makers will stop using Nvidia GPUs under the 60 series so they can get Apple type battery life


15th Gen: Built on 2nm and 3nm, launches August - October 2024

* Much more significant upgrades - 30% faster than 14th Gen in single thread and 40% faster in multithread, due to new P core architecture.

* Remains as 8 P core and 16 E core, the performance gains are all IPC from the new P core

Hmm this goes against all other leaks, where Raptor lake refresh didn't get the 14th gen name and was still LGA1700.

6.2-6.5Ghz would be amazing though, if they manage it on LGA1700 then even better, though new voltage controller would mandate a new platform/socket.

 

[Dave2150]

According to everything so far including in MLID's video the refresh will be LGA1700, Wouldn't make much sense to lock it to a socket coming out next year for a completely different line.

The new voltage controller rumour all but mandates a new motherboard platform though - perhaps that part of the leak is just nonsense.

 

[Dave2150]

If you mean DLVR then it is available on Asus Z690/Z790 boards but is currently disabled but going forward should be able to have it enabled for the refresh via a bios update ... https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-dlvr-fused-off-in-raptor-lake

If Z690 boards get 14th gen (which is now rumoured to be the raptor lake refresh and not meteor lake) I'll be very surprised but happy. It's already an odd feeling on Intel for me, going from a 12900k to a 13900k on my Maximus Z690 hero. If rumours are true and 14th gen raptor lake refresh is 6.2-6.5Ghz, 30% reduced power thanks to new voltage regulator, then damn.......

Still don't buy it

 

[Dave2150]

If the rumours are to be believed then yep 14th gen will still be on LGA1700 and will be a drop in replacement, personally i think this will be the case .... i reckon what Intel will do is use this new DLVR to push the clocks as high as possible , so basically they add dlvr to 13th gen get a nice reduction in voltage and power draw for the same clocks then push the voltage and power draw back up along with higher core clocks so will likely end up with same sort of power draw / heat generated as 13th gen but at clocks of over 6Ghz stock with potentially more to come from overclocking . As its looking to be a drop in replacement i will be very interested as my 13900k is average at best being an SP100 sample although i have delided it now which has made it a little better

Intel 14th Gen Raptor Lake Refresh Desktop CPUs Rumored To Clock Up To 6.2 GHz

Intel's 14th Gen Raptor Lake Refresh Desktop CPUs are expected to further boost the clock speeds compared to 13th Gen Raptor Lake chips.

wccftech.com

I don't think it's possible for 6.2-6.5Ghz on 10nm with a 30% reduction in power. They'd need major new process improvements for that kind of improvement. I doubt that would even be possible on Intel's 7nm process, at least when it's still in it's infancy.

 

[Dave2150]

I don't think 14th gen draws less power, it's the lower voltage curve that they are using to achieve higher clocks but TDP will remain the same. Youd only see lower power draw when operating at the same clocks as 13th Gen. For example the 13900k has a boost clock of 5.8ghz, so a 14900k would be able to do 5.8ghz and be stable with a lower voltage than the 13900k can do, so it would draw less power than the 13900k but instead of doing that, Intel will run both CPUs at the same voltage and that allows the 14900k to be clocked a few hundred MHz higher and be stable

I still doubt they'll be able to reach 6.2-6.5Ghz (one core boost, all core boost unknown, 5.8Ghz perhaps?) on the same process with the same power draw as a 13900k. That requires a huge increase in 10nm performance, I mentioned earlier I doubt even Intel's 7nm would achieve this, in it's first release at least.

 

[Dave2150]

A good KS chip will do upto 6.4Ghz on 1 to 2 cores or at least 6.3GHz so with this new dlvr feature it should allow the refresh to boost to 6.4-6.5Ghz out the box on 1 to 2 cores at the same sort of voltage / power usage we have now i would imagine. will be interesting to see how much they can squeeze out of it

13900KS can't even do 6Ghz single core in all applications or for more than a very short burst, at stock TDP. If you overclock, bump loads more power and have custom watercooling, then you can get sustained 6Ghz clocks.

 

[Dave2150]

How can that be? Why would the TDP be the restriction here? A single core workload won't consume more than 50-60-70w maybe. I don't think TDP is an issue.

Several restrictions, though the important thing to note is that a 13900k can't sustain 5.8Ghz single core clock rate in all applications at stock - it will downclock. Same for the 13900KS, it can't sustain 6Ghz single core in realistic workloads, without downclocking.

 

[Dave2150]

Interesting... it would be nice to have Intel confirm it though

But yes, aiming for 3 generations per board instead of 2 would be very nice. Two isn't usually enough to be worth the effort, so people end up upgrading cpu+motherboard+memory every 2nd gen, and it's annoying. I really like the upgrade path that AM4 had and AM5 is promising, but I am definitely wary of the warranty vs EXPO shenanigans that are going on. I have 2x32 6000c30 on my desk, waiting to go into a system. I know full well that Ryzen 7000 runs significantly worse at default memory speeds and latencies. I do not intend to void the warranty on a £400 motherboard + £400 cpu combo.

Now if it all blows over in a week or so and it turns into "of COURSE we warranty parts used with EXPO" then fine, ok, good. I do really like the X3D line and I am very impressed by the power efficiency. The CPUs themselves are fantastic, I want one. But I don't want to have to gimp it or risk nearly a grand worth of hardware in order to get its reviewed speeds.

I wouldn't count Raptor Lake refresh as a "new generation". If it just ends up being a 13900KS + 200Mhz, then it's just another binned chip, no IPC increase, no additional cores etc.

 

[Dave2150]

Meteor Lake could be Intel's chance to catch up to AMD in integrated graphics​

Source: https://www.xda-developers.com/meteor-lake-intel-catch-up-amd-integrated-graphics/

Intel has already confirmed that it will make at least two different GPUs for its Meteor Lake chips using TSMC's 5nm node, which is on par with AMD's RX 7000 series. A standalone GPU tile allows Intel to maximize performance if it so desires since integrated graphics on a monolithic CPU (which means no chiplets or tiles) have to be limited in size in order to be practical. Because AMD prefers to just make one consumer APU rather than multiple ones with different iGPUs, it might be leaving performance on the table. Intel would have no such problem with this tile-based approach.

Interesting. With so many rumours floating around, it's hard to know if we'll actually get Meteor Lake on desktop, or if it'll be laptop only. Sound be a great chip efficiency wise for mobile, though still curious to see how well Intel will execute for their first mainstream tile/chiplet approach.