14th Gen "Raptor Lake Refresh"

[Dave2150]

The choice is quite straightforward; until Intel makes a significant change, AMD is the better choice, both for gaming and productivity, especially in terms of efficiency and power consumption. Not to mention the significantly superior and more feature-rich platform with the upgrade potential to Zen 5-3d. Intel has nothing to compete with AMD until they make significant changes, and Arrow Lake will once again arrive on the market quite late. And Meteor Lake will be exclusively a mobile architecture, with only 6 P cores, which will be a bottleneck in future games.

Yeap, this 100%.

 

[Dave2150]

We all wish that was true. Sadly zen 4 reminds me of the amd fx days. Massive power draw for tiny performance on the amd parts. All of Intel's products are vastly more efficient while offering similar performance. You can't beat physics, more cores equals more performance at same power draw. Latest amd cpus are competing with intel from 3 generations ago, like the zen 4 r7 vs 12th gen i7.

I encourage everyone to report this post to moderations for trolling - it's the only way to stop this madness.

 

[Dave2150]

This has been dealt with in accordance with the CPU Strikes message at the top of the section

Thanks

 

[Dave2150]

Intel LGA-1851 socket for Arrow Lake-S CPUs exposed in official drawings​

Intel LGA-1851 socket for Arrow Lake-S CPUs exposed in official drawings - VideoCardz.com

Intel “Arrow Lake-S” LGA-1851 platform may require new mounting kits The Intel LGA-1851 socket has become familiar to PC enthusiasts. Initially intended for the next-gen desktop consumer platform called Meteor Lake-S, Intel has now shifted its plans for the socket and the first product to debut...

videocardz.com

15th gen Arrow Lake will be on LGA-1851, looks to be taking shape. Intel will finally catch up to Zen4, in that it'll feature 20 PCI-Ev5 lanes from CPU, enabling a x16 GPU and x4 SSD to work simultaneously at full speed.

 

[Dave2150]

Latest MLID video is out

He says don't worry about the recent arrow lake performance leaks showing minimal gains over the Raptor lake refresh.

He says it's an early engineering sample and performance will rapidly improve as new steppings are introduced later this year and he is still claiming the final product will be 40% faster than Raptor lake core for core and that the 15900k will end up as much as 75% faster than a 13900k in multithread

TSMC 4nm looks to be significantly better than Intel's 10nm process then. Can't wait for a deep dive into the architecture and process/scaling differences.

Can you imagine if its 75% faster than 13900k in MT, while using less power? Zen5 would have to be > 8 core per CCX to compete. Big IF though.

 

[Dave2150]

I suspect Intel's main focus will be power consumption. It's not a good image with 12900k, 13900k being so highly inefficient compared to Zen4x3d. 14th gen for desktop is likely to make this worse.

A desktop chip consuming 350W+ is complete madness, when the competition sips power and delivers similar overall performance (better performance in games).

 

[Dave2150]

That's an easily solvable situation. Power limit them to whatever watts you want / need. It will take 5 seconds.

Gaming Efficiency is the problem, at least for 13th gen, but still that's only comparable to the 3d chips. Normal zen 4 ain't particularly efficient in gaming either, especially the dual ccds.

350w is for people that only care about performance,since it is the faster chip at that wattage. If you don't care about performance just power limit them, various tests from computerbasede to phoronix and puget bench have shown that Intel is incredibly efficient at lower wattages. So - what's the problem?

If you power limit the 13900k, it's performance drops. It needs 350W+ to compete with Zen4x3d.

 

[Dave2150]

It needs 350+ watts to compete in games? Or are you talking about multithreaded? Cause neither of them is true.

Here is a pugetbench review, the 13900k and the 7950x are at 125watts,the ks is at 150. The difference in efficiency between the 13900k and the 7950x is 9%. Nothing to write home about. So if you are running the 7950x at 100w, the 13900k needs 109 watts to match the performance.

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachments/intel-core-i9-13900ks-cinebench-r23-multi-core-mode-benchmark-results-png.300829/

Please stop trolling - it's established in official reviews that the 13900KS uses up to 350W in some workloads, at stock. Zen4X3D is much more efficient.

 

[Dave2150]

At stock, sure, nobody argues otherwise. If you care about power efficiency don't run it stock, limit it to 109w and you achieve the same performance while using 9 more watts than the 7950x or the 3d. Big whoop.

Oh god please stop. A 13900k, limited to 109W, does achieve the same performance as a 7950X3D. Heck, even at 300W+ it loses in some benchmarks. Please stop trolling.

 

[Dave2150]

Yes I believe we can, now

Should be easy to identify him if he makes a new forum account as well

 

[Dave2150]

They both still more than good enough and the best it's ever been with out the box performance. Working 'properly' in the old days would be things like the shunting mod and being forced to overclock and that because they left so much performance in the box.

It's because you are generally only getting the nth degree of performance for all the hard work now as the rest is already there.

I agree. These days the CPU's pretty much overclock themselves out of the box. Very little headroom to be gained in pure frequency.

If you're gaming at 4k, you get 99%of the performance with "load optimized defaults" from Intel 13th gen and Zen4.

 

[Dave2150]

Intel Core i9-14900K & Core i7-14700K Raptor Lake Refresh CPU Benchmarks Leak Out

Benchmarks of Intel's upcoming Core i9-14900K & Core i7-14700K CPUs which will be part of the Raptor Lake Refresh lineup have leaked.

wccftech.com

First benchmarks leak, but seem to be engineering samples with low clock speeds, so slower than 13th gen........ Lets hope they're ES and not just thermal throttling at stock

 

[Dave2150]

And what do the users of 13900k and 13900ks gain from purchasing 14900k, apart from a 100W+ higher consumption and a lighter wallet? Someone mentioned platform vitality, which I consider to be when new models offer significant advancements, noticeably higher performance, etc., rather than just within a 5% margin while consuming much more power. With AMD, we had Zen 2 with a 15% IPC improvement over Zen 1, and then Zen 3 with a 19% higher IPC compared to Zen 2. Additionally, there's Zen 3-3d which offers significantly higher 0.1%/1% low fps in gaming. Transitioning from Zen 1 and Zen 2 to Zen 3-3d is substantial, and that's what I consider true platform vitality.

If rumours are true and 14900k is just 200Mhz higher clock, with higher power draw, then very little, besides epeen/bragging rights.

If they've improved the process, implemented DLVR, reduced power draw, then that a different story, but we don't know for sure at this point.

 

[Dave2150]

Does it still use the LGA 1700 socket ive got a z690 gathering dust.

Yeap!

My Maximus Hero Z690, bought for £550 back in October 2021, has turned out to be exceedingly good value Also had £100 cashback from an ASUS promotion at the time I believe.

 

[Dave2150]

It should still work, be interesting to see, same position myself, how much performance differences there will be between those with DDR 4 and 5. Differences in actual day to day use and games, not benchmarks.

With a 4090 and 7200Mhz + DDR5, it can be up to 5-10% faster in games. No brainer with current prices, though as mentioned by Henry above, DDR5 was very expensive on launch (£600 for a 6400Mhz kit etc)

14th gen with DDR4 will still be an awesome setup.

 

[Dave2150]

It wasn't just the expense, I too bought into AL at launch. It was also having 2x16GB of 3200Mhz Corsair RAM that I could still use in the DDR4 board for AL.
I can live with that 5 to 10% difference, considering it would cost a new board and the RAM to get there. It would not be as bad if there were going to be more CPU choices for the 1700 socket after these refresh CPU's are being released, that would kinda soften the blow.

Yeah that makes sense. I did say "upto 5-10%" as in some games there is next to no difference at all.

 

[Dave2150]

https://videocardz.com/sections/rumor
Intel LGA-1851 platform rumored to continue through 2026, no DDR4 support

Intel LGA-1851 platform rumored to continue through 2026, no DDR4 support - VideoCardz.com

Intel LGA-1851 planned for 2024-2026 According to TLC (@leaf_hobby) Intel has started distributing first Arrow Lake-S engineering samples. While the leaker cautions that the tweets haven’t been completely verified, the source has previously disclosed confidential information which turned out to...

videocardz.com

Assuming Arrow Lake (successor to 14900k) launches 2024, it will be a return to a short lived 2 year socket/platform for LGA-1851/z890.

 

[Dave2150]

Buying a new revision of the 790 boards would seem pointless to me and my needs, considering that the socket support for future CPU's is ending after the RL refresh.
More life for my 690 board, seems good to me.

The 14700k seems interesting, good to see what the differences will be when tested in how those extra E cores are used.
Otherwise a 3%or so potential uplift, is not great..... Not terrible. Somewhat expected I suppose from a refresh.

Interesting to see the prices, as well as the rest of the RL CPU's when these release.

Yeap I agree, upgrading from Z690 to Z790 makes non sense. The only real advantage is higher memory speeds, but you'll not notice these outside of memory bandwidth benchmarks. Certainly not at 4k, where the GPU is still the bottleneck.

I'll probably grab a 14900k if it's significantly more efficient/better binned than a 13900k, but I doubt it will be, so probably won't bother.

 

[Dave2150]

Right so they renamed them 14'th gen...

The i7 14700k gets 4 more cores. If Intel price it well, it'll be very hard to beat for all round performance.

 

[Dave2150]

I only bought a 13900K a while back, did not know these were coming out, am i right in thinking thou, that the 14900K wont be a big upgrade from what i have now ? thx

Unfortunately it appears to be the exact same CPU. So same 10nm process, same exact architecture, literally no hardware changes.

We had hoped these would have process improvement, or the new DLVR (voltage regulator) which might have reduced power consumption by 20%, sadly these seem to be untrue.

Best we can hope for at this point is that these are ultra well binned parts. So you could see an average 14900k hitting 6Ghz consistently compared to an average 13900k which struggles to maintain 5.8Ghz in single core applications. We just don't know yet.