1800X to 7700K ?

[Dicehunter]

Ok so, I play a lot of games and especially in WoW even with the 1800X at 2560x1440P, 25FPS is not uncommon and that's not in raids, That's just in the countryside or in towns, I get such extremely low CPU and GPU usage and I can guarantee the CPU is the bottleneck here.

Would I be nuts going from a 4GHz 1800X to a 5GHz 7700K if it's just for gaming and some light encoding now and then ?

 

[TallPaul1878]

Wait for Coffee Lake.

 

[mistersprinkles]

Ok so, I play a lot of games and especially in WoW even with the 1800X at 2560x1440P, 25FPS is not uncommon and that's not in raids, That's just in the countryside or in towns, I get such extremely low CPU and GPU usage and I can guarantee the CPU is the bottleneck here.

Would I be nuts going from a 4GHz 1800X to a 5GHz 7700K if it's just for gaming and some light encoding now and then ?

Nuts, yes, but not as nuts as the guy in the USA that ate the other guy's face and he wasn't even on drugs. Not that nuts.

Wait for Coffee Lake for sure. Get the 6 core.

 

[Panos]

Ok so, I play a lot of games and especially in WoW even with the 1800X at 2560x1440P, 25FPS is not uncommon and that's not in raids, That's just in the countryside or in towns, I get such extremely low CPU and GPU usage and I can guarantee the CPU is the bottleneck here.

Would I be nuts going from a 4GHz 1800X to a 5GHz 7700K if it's just for gaming and some light encoding now and then ?

Use MSI AB, put all the threads on overlay and play as normal. Observe what's happening during gamepla PER CORE not overall CPU usage. WOW has crap engine, it will slow even lower CPU usage on a 16 core CPU!!!!

Also what's the speed of your ram and GPU? How's your VRAM usage when the performance tanks?

 

[gavinh87]

Ok so, I play a lot of games and especially in WoW even with the 1800X at 2560x1440P, 25FPS is not uncommon and that's not in raids, That's just in the countryside or in towns, I get such extremely low CPU and GPU usage and I can guarantee the CPU is the bottleneck here.

Would I be nuts going from a 4GHz 1800X to a 5GHz 7700K if it's just for gaming and some light encoding now and then ?

Something must be wrong here, my 1700 with a 1070 could do 60/70 at 1080p in busy towns, I no longer play but it certainly wasn't as bad as you are experiencing.

 

[Dicehunter]

Use MSI AB, put all the threads on overlay and play as normal. Observe what's happening during gamepla PER CORE not overall CPU usage. WOW has crap engine, it will slow even lower CPU usage on a 16 core CPU!!!!

Also what's the speed of your ram and GPU? How's your VRAM usage when the performance tanks?

CPU is at 4GHz, Ram is at 3000MHz, Vram usage stays around the same, General GPU usage is around 40% in wow with CPU usage going as low as 5%, I've tested the GPU in an Intel based system and all is fine so my presumption is the CPU is holding it back.

Something must be wrong here, my 1700 with a 1070 could do 60/70 at 1080p in busy towns, I no longer play but it certainly wasn't as bad as you are experiencing.

I play at 1440P maxed settings, AA makes no difference though, I've tried with it on and off and the frame difference is negligible.

Here's a screenie of in town and outside of town -

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[gavinh87]

Your problem is max settings. It's brutal on all CPUs. Knock that down to 7 and get much more performance for little quality loss.
A 5ghz i7 will do better but I don't think it's worth the cost for wow. An overclocked i3 will perform the same as an i7 due to the crappy engine it uses.

You are not alone, even with an i7 and a 1080.

The engine is just a POS

Its definitely not unexpected that you are not getting high FPS at 10, honestly anything over 8 is going to have fps issues due to hardware/engine limitations. The biggest thing is the load on the CPU. You can usually lower shadows and reduce view distance and set render scale to 100% and you should be good. I would set everything between 7 or 8 and you can likely turn up other settings.

From a blizzard rep
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20754475648

 

[AllBodies]

I wouldn't swap personally. And if I did I'd 100% wait for coffee lake as others said.

The only other thing is how fast is your RAM? RAM speed is VERY important for Ryzen. With 3200C14 getting you pretty much the best performance.

Also, at the end of the day, the WoW engine is just bad. There's only so much you can do to up the FPS.

 

[humbug]

Its not going to make much difference, its just the way WoW is.

 

[Panos]

CPU is at 4GHz, Ram is at 3000MHz, Vram usage stays around the same, General GPU usage is around 40% in wow with CPU usage going as low as 5%, I've tested the GPU in an Intel based system and all is fine so my presumption is the CPU is holding it back.



I play at 1440P maxed settings, AA makes no difference though, I've tried with it on and off and the frame difference is negligible.

Here's a screenie of in town and outside of town -

Spoiler

Spoiler

Run the game with the overlay on showing each individual thread/core and observe their behaviour. I bet you won't see any of them hitting 100% constantly.
Also do you use the Maximum performance on the windows power settings? Is mandatory for all Ryzen CPUs.

Also even you upgrade to 7700K @ 5Ghz don't expect some miracle more than 10-14%, so 2-3 fps at best. On the contrary, due to the less core count, more services will compete for those 4 cores.
Especially if you run TS on the background talking to your mates or listening to streaming radio you might see less fps, not more.

That 10-14% can be gained from going from 3000Mhz to 3200C14 or even better 3466C14 by overclocking. The difference is huge even between 3200 and 3466

Follow this blog/guide here and let us know your results, especially the MSI all thread overlay.
https://community.amd.com/community...emory-oc-showdown-frequency-vs-memory-timings

https://community.amd.com/servlet/JiveServlet/downloadImage/38-1506-122967/pastedImage_11.png

** Do Not Hotlink images **


And don't forget. WOW came out 2004, so is written with 2000-1 tools and technologies.

 

[voidshatter]

WOW is one of the many games heavily relying on single-thread performance, especially when you have max settings for shadow. Current leaked specs don't suggest higher TurboBoost frequencies for Coffee Lake, so a 5.1GHz 7700K will likely continue to serve you well if you focus on this kind of games. If you are not in a hurry, then you could wait for Coffee Lake announcement, check the final specs and initial reviews, and decide between 7700K and Coffee Lake.

1800X is not a bad CPU either - it's better for the few current and upcoming multi-threaded games, and better for multi-thread applications such like video transcoding etc.

I would prefer to keep the 1800X and get another Intel rig - they each have their own speciality.

Keep in mind that 6-core wouldn't stop the itch of upgrade if you fail to observe how games would gain anything with more cores like 8-core. Currently 7820X looks promising since it can also do 4.5GHz TurboBoost by default.

 

[Panos]

WOW is one of the many games heavily relying on single-thread performance, especially when you have max settings for shadow. Current leaked specs don't suggest higher TurboBoost frequencies for Coffee Lake, so a 5.1GHz 7700K will likely continue to serve you well if you focus on this kind of games. If you are not in a hurry, then you could wait for Coffee Lake announcement, check the final specs and initial reviews, and decide between 7700K and Coffee Lake.

1800X is not a bad CPU either - it's better for the few current and upcoming multi-threaded games, and better for multi-thread applications such like video transcoding etc.

I would prefer to keep the 1800X and get another Intel rig - they each have their own speciality.

Keep in mind that 6-core wouldn't stop the itch of upgrade if you fail to observe how games would gain anything with more cores like 8-core. Currently 7820X looks promising since it can also do 4.5GHz TurboBoost by default.

However 10% over AMD speed, doesn't mean anything more than 2 fps at best. So 25 to 27 isn't that big difference. He can gain more performance by trying to overclock the Ram of the Ryzen machine.
The IPC between Zen and SKylake is almost the same, or better if high speed ram is used on Zen (3200-3466).

And WOW doesn't consume 100% of the single thread. It hovers around 80-85%. So higher speeds are meaningless. Same applies to WOT which is single thread game.
By moving from 6700K @ 4.8 to 6800 @ 4Ghz (and briefly to 1700X @ 4Ghz) I gained 20% more fps, because less background services were competing for the same cores resources.

 

[voidshatter]

However 10% over AMD speed, doesn't mean anything more than 2 fps at best. So 25 to 27 isn't that big difference. He can gain more performance by trying to overclock the Ram of the Ryzen machine.
The IPC between Zen and SKylake is almost the same, or better if high speed ram is used on Zen (3200-3466).

And WOW doesn't consume 100% of the single thread. It hovers around 80-85%. So higher speeds are meaningless. Same applies to WOT which is single thread game.
By moving from 6700K @ 4.8 to 6800 @ 4Ghz (and briefly to 1700X @ 4Ghz) I gained 20% more fps, because less background services were competing for the same cores resources.

This is not quite accurate. When the game is CPU-bound (single-thread-bound), there should be a 47% increase of fps from 1800X@4GHz to 7700K@5GHz, since 1800X@4GHz scores 1955 for single-thread while [email protected] scores 2584 for single-thread. That means from 25fps to 37fps.

 

[Panos]

This is not quite accurate. When the game is CPU-bound (single-thread-bound), there should be a 47% increase of fps from 1800X@4GHz to 7700K@5GHz, since 1800X@4GHz scores 1955 for single-thread while [email protected] scores 2584 for single-thread. That means from 25fps to 37fps.

Playing games is not as clear cut as a single thread benchmark without ram references also.

 

[N19h7m4r3]

You are not alone, even with an i7 and a 1080.

The engine is just a POS

My sweet spot is most settings at 10, but view distance to 8, shadows to Ultra, and ground clutter to 9 + CMAA.

Allows me to record the game in 1440p in raids, without dropping below 40. Although in most areas I'll be around 90fps, unless there's some horrific amount of action. Then nothing can save your performance.

The game relies on a single core far too much, and there were bugs with shadows and alpha particles that tanked GPU performance as well.

Luckily we don't have to deal with Ashran anymore, that place decimated my fps; and it was before Legion increased the fidelity as well.

FPS under minimap.




Even so some folks in my guild, and friends have 7700Ks overclocked, and their performance is very similar to Ryzen, and my 5820K. I managed to get higher FPS in raids even while recording our progress and kills.

My next system is likely going to be Threadripper, so will have to see how that performs in the game. Although I'll likely be able to record, encode, and game without issue then

 

[Beren]

This is not quite accurate. When the game is CPU-bound (single-thread-bound), there should be a 47% increase of fps from 1800X@4GHz to 7700K@5GHz, since 1800X@4GHz scores 1955 for single-thread while [email protected] scores 2584 for single-thread. That means from 25fps to 37fps.

Your maths is also pretty far out. On your numbers the difference between 1955 and 2584 is not 47%, not quite sure how you got there. On the quoted numbers the difference between FPS would be 25 FPS to 33FPS.

Secondly I am not convinced the gap is that large, the Passmark average on the 1800X is based on 400 odd benchmarks, which is awesome - but I suspect a large number of those were in the first few months of release not based on benchmarks carried out over the last month or so with a more mature platform.

All that said if you absolutely want to play on the highest settings even a 5-8 FPS gain is a pretty significant jump from the Lows you are seeing.

 

[N19h7m4r3]

Found someone that logged his performance in WoW Trial of Valor raid. 1700X at stock with GTX 1080, and RAM at 3200Mhz.

So yeah a 7700K overclocked to 4.8 or 4.9Ghz will be faster, but it seems at 1440p the 1700X is doing well despite it's clock speed at stock.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sIF6toVPko





Chap recorded a massive session that shows the areas the FPS can tank, it's mostly cities. Even in dungeons and PvP his Ryzen system is in the 80-90s.

 

[voidshatter]

Your maths is also pretty far out. On your numbers the difference between 1955 and 2584 is not 47%, not quite sure how you got there. On the quoted numbers the difference between FPS would be 25 FPS to 33FPS.

Secondly I am not convinced the gap is that large, the Passmark average on the 1800X is based on 400 odd benchmarks, which is awesome - but I suspect a large number of those were in the first few months of release not based on benchmarks carried out over the last month or so with a more mature platform.

All that said if you absolutely want to play on the highest settings even a 5-8 FPS gain is a pretty significant jump from the Lows you are seeing.

2584 / 4.5 * 5 / 1955 = 1.47

 

[Beren]

2584 / 4.5 * 5 / 1955 = 1.47

Ahh, so you were assuming a 5ghz clock on the 7700?

 

[voidshatter]

Ahh, so you were assuming a 5ghz clock on the 7700?

5GHz for 7700K is very realistic... Late batches from Malaysia can do 5GHz AVX stable at 1.26v, and even 5.2GHz SSE stable at 1.33v.

It remains to be seen whether 8700K can do so good, but early passmark numbers of 7740X also looks better than 7700K.