2021 F1 changes and cars

The_Abyss · 4 Oct 2018 at 13:33

I couldn't see a thread for this - we've got a good couple of years for the final rules to be agreed and interpreted, evaluated, toys to be thrown out of the pram, leave F1 threats etc so I thought I'd start a new one. F1 concepts here: https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...ts-for-f1s-future.6oFMwkqp1eUumW8qUG0S8k.html

What prompted me was this article or, rather, the English summary that accompanied it on Twitter:

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/f1-2021-auto-bilder-infos/

https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/1047431697514545152

"Some new infos on 2021 F1 cars: Wheelbase set to be limited to 340 cm making cars 20-30 cm shorter than now. Fuel flow to be increased to 110 kg/h which results in louder & more powerful cars (way over 1000hp)."

I was pondering whether the increased fuel flow would benefit the current engine leaders (Ferrari and Mercedes) more than those still struggling to catch up, but then immediately remembered that there are still discussions on changing the engine formula.

andicole0 · 4 Oct 2018 at 13:48

2021 could be all change for a number of other reasons than techncal specifications.
1 Will MClaren and Williams still be able to afford to compete.
2 Will Ferrari finally give up.
3 Will Mercedes get bored with no competitors.
4 Will Red Bull give up especially if the Honda engine doesn't perform.
5 If the Honda engine doesn't perform will Honda pull out.
6 Will Torro Rosso also give up if Red Bull close the cheque book.

Leaving Renault, Sauber, Haas and Stroll Force India? Who would watch that!
Why bother looking at technical details if there are not likely to be any competitors.
Andi.

deuse · 4 Oct 2018 at 15:51

IndyCar says HELLO

delta0 · 8 Oct 2018 at 00:13

I’m glad they are not going even more eco. What is the point in motorsport! Sound has been particularly one of the most disappointing things in F1 recently. I really miss the days of a screaming engine winding through 21k rpm.

MissChief · 8 Oct 2018 at 00:14

delta0 said:
I’m glad they are not going even more eco. What is the point in motorsport! Sound has been particularly one of the most disappointing things in F1 recently. I really miss the days of a screaming engine winding through 21k rpm.

Go back and listen to the cars in 2014, the first of the V6 turbo era. The cars sound AWFUL. Compare now and then and the cars sound WAY better now.

Most of the power Mercedes and Ferrari are making comes from MGU-H and MGU-K utilisation rather than the ICE itself. Increasing the fuel flow will certainly improve things power and sound wise it's true though and should also mean higher RPM.

delta0 · 8 Oct 2018 at 00:31

MissChief said:
Go back and listen to the cars in 2014, the first of the V6 turbo era. The cars sound AWFUL. Compare now and then and the cars sound WAY better now.

Most of the power Mercedes and Ferrari are making comes from MGU-H and MGU-K utilisation rather than the ICE itself. Increasing the fuel flow will certainly improve things power and sound wise it's true though and should also mean higher RPM.

I agree. They sound a lot better now and I really hope they improve further. I was at Silverstone this year and I still felt that the experience would have been better if the car had the intensity of the V10 again.

this_is_gav · 8 Oct 2018 at 10:17

MissChief said:
Go back and listen to the cars in 2014, the first of the V6 turbo era. The cars sound AWFUL. Compare now and then and the cars sound WAY better now.

I disagree generally. The sound coming from amateurs (recording and streaming from trackside for example) always sounded much better. The difference has come with Liberty's takeover - Bernie wanted the V6 power units to fail; he'd always hated them, and probably out of spite as much as anything FOM somehow managed to make them sound flat and lifeless, completely different to the much more lively sound that amateurs were recording. Since Liberty's takeover the sound of the engines has been slowly getting better and better.

Add to that the V8s were terrible; they were just loud noise and nothing else. The V10s that preceeded them were fantastic though (but you could argue that for a F1 engine in every generation right back to the BRM V16 in the 50s).

The_Abyss · 8 Oct 2018 at 14:26

You can't tell from phone recordings or the TV. I was at the very first test in Jerez for the new V6s, and compared to where they are today (was also at the Barcelona test this year) they've changed significantly. They're a lot louder with more growl now, and the sound is now multidirectional whereas it used to be that you'd hardly hear one if it was driving to wards you and the exhaust was pointing in the opposite direction.

I don't disagree that FOM made the engines sound much worse than they are, but there's no denying that the engine noise today is radically different compared to when they launched.

4K8KW10 · 22 Dec 2018 at 22:37

If they make the cars look like this, it's gonna be awesome :eek:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia-unrestricted-cfd-testing-explained/4315882/
The FIA has revealed the requirements Formula 1 teams will need to adhere to in order to produce unrestricted CFD simulations for the planned 2021 aerodynamics regulations.

The_Abyss · 23 Dec 2018 at 00:34

I'm concerned that the active suspension required to manage those larger wheels over more extreme kerbs will result in an increased number of mechanical failure retirements.

andicole0 · 23 Dec 2018 at 10:11

The_Abyss said:
I'm concerned that the active suspension required to manage those larger wheels over more extreme kerbs will result in an increased number of mechanical failure retirements.

But that is why they'll have employ engineers to design and build it properly.
However don't we all look for a nice safe accident?
Andi.

GravyMonster · 23 Dec 2018 at 12:26

4K8KW10 said:
If they make the cars look like this, it's gonna be awesome

It would, but it's never going to happen. That's what it looks like when you give a designer (mostly) free reign. If they wrote rules around that the aerodynamicists would find ways to make them ugly again to gain .001s per lap.

andicole0 · 23 Dec 2018 at 12:45

Surely it's not the looks but the racing!!!

Andi.

The_Abyss · 5 Mar 2019 at 09:25

Unfortunately is it tainted with Andrew Benson, but a new BBC article on 2021 changes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/47422390

Taken at face value, there is hope. However there's no mention at all of the opposing views of the major teams.

CaptainRAVE · 5 Mar 2019 at 11:01

Hope...until they find loopholes in the rules and stick aero parts all over the cars.

4K8KW10 · 31 Oct 2019 at 17:33

BREAKING NEWS
2021 car revealed as FIA and F1 present regulations for the future
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...ns-for-the-future.3ZkeTsu1sNCrFGP1HI9KVy.html

KiNgPiN83 · 31 Oct 2019 at 17:42

I like it.

But to be honest I’m more interested in how they will perform on the track and while racing each other.

also, reading some of the other changes I’m not sure on the reduced testing, wind tunnel time etc as if someone gets things more right than everyone else, the others don’t have the tools to catch them up. Could go the way of the engine tokens...Of course you could say they just need to do a better job to begin with but that’s easier said than done I guess??

deuse · 31 Oct 2019 at 18:38

OMG Pimp my IndyCar

And I bet it won't change a thing come 2021

Flibster · 31 Oct 2019 at 20:14

Bit in the middle. Fine. I'd lose the bargeboards though.
Diffuser. Yes. Make it bigger.
18" wheels. About time.
Aero flip over the front wheels. Meh...

Front and rear wings. Gopping.

Stumble Bum · 31 Oct 2019 at 20:36

A thing of beauty. Really looking forward to the 2021 shake up. Having Ross Brawn involved was always a great move.