7 Royal Marines arrested on suspicion of murder

What if the big hoo-ha isn't about the engagement with an insurgent? What if, and like everyone else this is just speculation, what if they're being arrested because there were originally 8 soldiers and one insurgent? ;)
 
That's what the UK ROE is anyway, not so sure about OOA.
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its different and has changed a few times depending on the OC, for example shooting a dicker has been legal in the past despite them not carrying a weapon.

it'll be complex stuff if it is a shooting incident i imagine but my head is saying they probably didnt give him medical aid or something and he died or was executed. that said we both know how accurate reports are in the press about defence incidents so *shrugs*

btw isnt roe classified? prob not best quoting parts of it.
 
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Ahh "insurgent", a vague term used for just about any Muslim or Arab in a Warzone.

Don't take it at face value, they just trying to make it look less...nasty.
 
Zefan said:
If you think about it it makes complete sense. If he is not carrying any more weapons then he is no longer a threat - killing him is entirely unnecessary and there's no reason to call it anything but murder. If he is carrying weapons, or you believe that he is still going to be a threat towards you or others then you can use controlled force to stop that happening. That's what the UK ROE is anyway, not so sure about OOA.

What a lot of people seem to want is for the ROE to be more like vengeance - "He shot at me so I get to shoot him!" - which really, really wouldn't work.
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So you have someone who you know was armed and you know was trying to kill you, in a situation where there's a strong possibility that they have other weapons and where there's a strong possibility that they are wearing explosives to kill you and anyone else nearby in a suicide attack.

Under those circumstances, how can you really be sure they're no longer a threat?
 
muggs said:
do you ever think stories like this against certain groups who are disliked by the people who tell these stories may be false?
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What you think the Taliban didn't shoot the schoolgirl after admitting to international news agencies that they carried out the attack?
I am aware of disinformation.
This is not a situation where it is being used.
 
Not really, what usually happens after withdrawal is the country looks inward, turns to internal conflict, civil war, and a complete mess as they fight each other for dominance, thus proving less of a threat externally.
Last thing that will happen is a peaceful withdrawal into a democratic state, but second best solution is a complete mess and bloodbath occupying them internally for as long as possible.
Cynical perhaps, but true.
 
Well, it seems that the charges relate to a death in custody of an insurgent...so I suspect that the victim was killed after he was secured and no longer a threat.
 
DaZe said:
Sounds like they shot/executed the guy after he had dropped his weapon (sorry for speculating), completely wrong and of course none of them should ever stoop to the levels of the Taliban, although it would be almost justifiable/understandable if that was the situation. Will be a very sad day if any of these Marines end up in prison.
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From what ive just seen on sky news, if an insurgent opens fire on troops then runs away but drops his weapon , the troops can be arrested for opening fire on him


surely thats wrong ? and what if hes managed to kills troops but drops/throws his weapon ? should the engagement cease because hes thrown his weapon while on the run ?
 
If this insurgent was indeed killed whilst under arrest and posing no real threat, then, it saddens me as an ex-marine to know that some of the most highly trained soldiers in the world could commit such an act.
That said, they are sent where the fighting tends to be the fiercest and as has been said "do not pussyfoot around". An insurgent dropping a weapon and raising his hands does not mean he is unarmed.
But as another ex-bootneck has stated "we could speculate all day".

I'm just sad that it's even in the news.

edit: i'd rather a marine (any british soldier) break the RoE and kill the enemy to be sure there are no explosives wrapped around his body waiting to blow him and his oppos to bits.
The enemy is devious, sneaky and certainly don't play by any kind of rules.
 
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We send them there to kill and get sad when they do, it's crazy!

Ok so he might have been unarmed or was executed in some way, but it's a war for gods sake, stuff like this has happened in every war ever and will continue to happen, get over it. Who are we to say if it's wrong or not, we're not the ones who the guy was trying to kill!
 
DaZe said:
I've watched a few vids from Apache FLIR of Taliban getting shot running away, even watched a vid where a Taliban got shot out of a tree he was hiding in. I'd link them however I doubt they're appropriate for the forum.
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US rules of engagement are different, rules of engagement for different units in theater can be different etc..etc... they can change during the course of an operational tour.

Politically the US takes a different attitude to this stuff to the point where they're perhaps too lenient - there are clips of US marines shooting injured/unarmed insurgents... the US tends not to prosecute very often and tbh.. you can pretty much get away with a slap on the wrists/short prison term even for blatantly massacring civilians (which has happened with only minimal prosecutions in both Vietnam and Iraq)

Seems like these Royal Marines may have had footage of something that wasn't in accordance with their rules of engagement on a laptop... we can only guess really but presumably the insurgent was no longer fighting and was shot. If it was a summary execution then that's something that does need answering, if it was more of a grey area then good luck to the guys... I hope they can come out of this without it ruining their careers.

USMC Corporal shooting injured insurgent:

http://boingboing.net/2005/05/10/fallujah-mosque-shoo.html

No charges followed
 
Its war not a slight disagreement, all well and good going on about rules of engagement, i have a few mates over there and they say its very common for them to be shot at only to find the shooter puts his gun down. IMO they should still have a well placed shot to the head.
 
Apparently the video showed the Marines discussing whether or not to give an injured insurgent first aid, the video ended shortly after and the insurgent eventually died. So I'm guessing they didn't give him first aid and he died as a result of that alone.

Now 5 Marines have been charged with muder? What a joke!
 
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