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76 trans children at one school

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by G-MAN2004, Nov 27, 2018.

  1. rIcK

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 5, 2004

    Posts: 1,207

    Piers Morgan is a horrible shouty douche. He says he could wake up one day and identify as a giraffe. I think it’s time for him to do that!
     
  2. Orionaut

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 2, 2012

    Posts: 6,258


    I wasn't talking about school age as such. Toddler age really.
     
  3. h4rm0ny

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 25, 2011

    Posts: 5,166

    Location: Yorkshire and proud of it!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...d-children-calling-transgender-woman-man.html

    I know Stephanie Hayden (male person, female "identity") from online encounters. He's very aggressive, loves to play victim. He's the same guy who got Graham Lineham (of Father Ted and I.T. Crowd fame) cautioned by police for referring to him as a man and is now suing Lineham for using his previous name and sharing a photo of him before he decided he was a woman. Lineham shouldn't have accepted the caution, imo, as he had broken no laws, but it can be very unsettling to suddenly find the police questioning you - especially if you're a law-abiding person who's never expected that. In any case, Stephanie has struck again, this time getting a woman held by police for seven hours for calling him a man online. Equally disturbing, a court has now issued an injunction against Kate Scottow forbidding her from calling Stephanie a man.

    Male is a biological and accurate term. This court has now declared stating a biological reality is illegal for Ms. Scottow.

    The law used in this case, is the Malicious Communications Act. Same law as was used against Count Dankula (the Nazi Pug). This law was originally put in place for more traditional broadcasters but never anticipated a day when ordinary communication would take place electronically and be accessible to the wider public.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  4. Caracus2k

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 27, 2009

    Posts: 4,011

    Pretty poor show by the police IMO they have effectively even more abandoned the Peelian principles they used to follow by taking what amounts to a political stance by adopting a tenet of intersectional gender theory.

    In other news....

    A tacit admission from the goverment that self identification as a woman doesn't actually mean that you are, without qualification, to be treated as one let alone that a trans man or woman actually is respectively a man or a woman.

     
  5. h4rm0ny

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 25, 2011

    Posts: 5,166

    Location: Yorkshire and proud of it!

    Well when you have police officers being sent on courses that teach them scientifically unfounded dogma such as "sometimes a woman's brain grows in a man's body", I guess that's what happens. By any definition, its indoctrination.

    Sad that it took actual sexual assaults before common sense could prevail. Numerous people were warning that this would happen but the political pressure made them do it anyway.
     
  6. h4rm0ny

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 25, 2011

    Posts: 5,166

    Location: Yorkshire and proud of it!

    Another case in the now daily punishment of those speaking the truth. People wont know who this guy is but he re-tweeted an article from the Spectator questioning whether women have penises. He lost his position as an editor on a journal, removed as president from a university society and is now banned from speaking at an event at Bristol University because of threats of violence.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Orionaut

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 2, 2012

    Posts: 6,258

    I saw this one the other day and almost included it in a thread of my own.

    I had just watched and old "Africa" movie from the late 50's and it had the "Trigger warning" "Hunting scenes and colonial attitudes" colonial attitudes! Oh LOL¬!

    At the same time this story came up, along with a report of football fans being arrested for making "Airplane gestures" Now, Bad taste perhaps. But a police matter! Really??

    And of course yesterday we have the report of some chap getting three months inside for compromising the treasuries revenue stream perverting the course of justice by using a speed camera jammer. Crikey, you can get nearly that for burgling somebodies house!

    By contrast, Elsewhere in the news we have a report that admissions to hospital for children with knife wounds have reached an all time high and an incident where a bunch of pikeys broke into a building and systematically destroyed it in order to remove all the metal while Police sat back and watched while making noises about "Not our job mate, Civil Matter"! Wut??

    It really does seem that any rational sense of civic priority on the part of the Police/Justice system has upped sticks, hopped on a starship, and flown off to a distant galaxy!

    What is that huge fountain of earth erupting from St peters Churchyard in Drayton Bassett??

    It is Robert Peel spinning in his grave!

    :confused:
     
  8. sigma

    Perma Banned

    Joined: Nov 13, 2006

    Posts: 16,577


    Lol
     
  9. Schlong&Stable

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 27, 2013

    Posts: 3,906

    I'll just reiterate what I've already said: If you've got XY chromosomes, you're a man. There's no changing that fact. If you have male biology and think you're a woman, you have a serious mental health issue that should be treated with medication or in the most extreme cases; institutionalisation. The solution is not to reorder society to fit your mental health issues.

    And yes I'm aware there are some people with chromosomal issues where they have say XXY, but it's worth noting that frequencies of gender dysphoria are not that much higher amongst those people: most identify clear as their physical sex.
     
  10. Mason-

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 18, 2010

    Posts: 4,919

    Location: Essex

    No it's not. Sex cells under the microscope (if that's even required). Larger sex cells? Female. Smaller sex cells? Male. This works for a large amount of species that have one of these cells exclusively. Some species have both.

    Yes you can. Humans have 10 fingers (or 8 fingers and 2 thumbs if you want to be pedantic) it doesn't mean someone born with 9 fingers or 11 fingers aren't human, in the same way that humans have 2 legs and 2 arms but humans born with no legs are still humans. They are anomalies. They don't disprove the general definition.
     
  11. Strife212

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 15, 2007

    Posts: 16,534

    That's what hormone replacement therapy is, which is the only treatment for Gender Dysphoria.
     
  12. h4rm0ny

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 25, 2011

    Posts: 5,166

    Location: Yorkshire and proud of it!

    Bicycles have two wheels. Cars have four wheels. Very occasionally a car might lose two wheels or someone might think driving a Robin Reliant is a good idea. None of this confuses people or eliminates the statement that there are cars, that there are bicycles, and that the two are not the same. You're falling into a very basic fallacy (or pulling a rhetorical trick depending on intent), which is to see two categories, search for something that doesn't fit perfectly into one of those categories and thereby declare those categories invalid. There is male, there is female, there are on rare occasions developmental disorders. And here's the really wild thing - people with those developmental disorders are not trans. They have recognizable medical conditions and rarely identify as trans. In fact, the only intersex person I have the pleasure of knowing (they have Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome) is pretty vocal on the subject of trans and intersex not being the same thing and as I've mentioned on more than on occasion, I've seen statements to that effect from intersex support groups.

    None of which seems to discourage TRAs from seizing upon intersex people as their totems to prove that "sex is a spectrum". It isn't. And TRAs are rarely if ever anything other than biological male or female without any sexual developmental disorders whatsoever. Complete annexation of people's medical conditions to try and push scientific nonsense about boy brains, girl brains and being born in the wrong body.
     
  13. h4rm0ny

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 25, 2011

    Posts: 5,166

    Location: Yorkshire and proud of it!

    Dangerous nonsense. Puberty Blockers and cross-sex hormone treatments are not shown to effectively treat gender dysphoria anymore than liposuction effectively treats anorexia. In some cases, people who feel better after SRS or hormone treatments feel better for it. In many other cases, not. Only now they are infertile and have a messed up body to add to their woes. The majority of trans-identified children (80% the most typical figure though older studies have shown higher or as low as 60%) grow out of it and become accepting of their sex. If puberty blockers and hormone treatments (life long hormone treatments, of course) show a LOWER rate of helping than no clinical intervention then it's pretty clear they're not a general treatment. What we do know about such treatments is that they have a drastic effect on detransitioning. Children who are put on puberty blockers for gender dysphoria get locked in and continue the treatment for a long time. Once you're on the clinical pathway it's extremely hard to get off. So either we have near psychic levels of determining which kids with GD wouldn't detransition; or rather more plausibly putting a kid on such drugs influences their decision away from accepting their actual sex in the long-run.

    Counselling and support is a treatment for GD and more effective. I don't know why you would pretend such a thing doesn't exist. If someone is an adult and can make a clear choice for themself that they want to pursue drug treatments or SRS, they can do so. Putting kids on such a pathway is provably harmful. And groups like Mermaids push practices such as "Immediate Affirmation" and push for early drug treatments in defiance of all evidence of harm.
     
  14. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 38,023

    Imagine this show being made today:



    At the big reveal the trans woman says "I'm not a woman, I was born as a man".

    and the suggested videos that appear after - Jerry Springer show - a trans woman reveals she is trans and the guy says "you're a man" to cheering form the audience, title of the clip "Sorry, I'm a man" and the next suggested clip titled "Tranny tricks a blind man"





     
  15. Strife212

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 15, 2007

    Posts: 16,534

    I never said anything about children, I was talking about adult gender dysphoria which very often does not just go away on its own, and was referring to the comment about curing gender dysphoria with some unknown 'medication'. As far as I know there is no such thing.
     
  16. Angilion

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Dec 5, 2003

    Posts: 15,566

    Location: Just to the left of my PC

    A perfect and utterly predictable example of how pointless the recent government guidelines on free speech in higher education are. They were based on the premise of civilised behaviour and are therefore useless against an organised ideology of violence and its brownshirts.
     
  17. Angilion

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Dec 5, 2003

    Posts: 15,566

    Location: Just to the left of my PC

    There are also some people with an XY chromosome pair and female biology and people with XX chromosomes and male biology. Genotype is not phenotype. It's probably very rare (we don't actually know how rare it is), but my point stands - you can't use the 46th chromosome type as a completely accurate determination of sex.

    More relevantly, there are also some people who have parts of both male and female biology. Hermaphroditism is rare in humans, but it does exist.

    A simple male/female split is almost always accurate, but that's not good enough to stand as a firm definition.

    And many humans have neither. Also, it's not clear what cells you're referring to. "sex cells" would probably best describe gametes, i.e. sperm or eggs. Those are cells, but it's odd that you would cite only size as the description of them. And yes, you'd certainly need a microscope to see them.

    So by your definition all post-menopausal women are no longer female, all women who've had their ovaries removed are no longer female and all men who've had their testicles removed are no longer male. There may also be people with non-functioning primary sexual organs. I don't know if that's the case, but if it is then by your definition they are also neuter.

    If you use 8 fingers and 2 thumbs as the definition of "human", then anything without 8 fingers and 2 thumbs is not human and any animal with 8 fingers and 2 thumbs is human. Congratulations! You've just defined all primates as human and some humans as not human.

    Definitions must be accurate. "Mostly true" isn't good enough - you're defining something, so it must apply in all cases. That's what the definition of a thing is - a description of what that thing is. Anything that does not meet that definition is not that thing. By definition.
     
  18. kindai

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 9, 2013

    Posts: 6,022

    Location: Bromsgrove

    Well said, no idea if your facts are true, but the sentiment I agree with.

    Messing kids up for life is not the answer, the path to transitioning should be an 18+ decision, and no earlier.
     
  19. Angilion

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Dec 5, 2003

    Posts: 15,566

    Location: Just to the left of my PC

    No. I am declaring those categories to be imprecise. Your analogy is also imprecise, so it serves as a perfect example. A bicycle has two wheels solely because that's what "bicycle" means. A car can have any number of wheels because the number of wheels is not what defines a car. There are commercially produced cars with 3, 4, 6 and 8 wheels. It would be possible to make a car with 5, 7 or any number of wheels.

    That's not wild in the slightest. "trans" means "movement" or "change". A person who is intersex and remains intersex hasn't changed. So of course they're not transexual. They might be transgender, but personally I think that's a meaningless term anyway because I dismiss the concept of gender as mostly artificial and always entirely irrelevant to any individual. My biggest ideological objection to trans activism is that it is insanely (and yes, I do mean that word literally - I think it is so extremely irrational that it is literally insane) obsessed with gender.

    The problem there is the deliberate confusion of sex and gender. That's what's wrong. That and the cultish, bullying, sexist ideology that is "trans activism", but the deliberate confusion of sex and gender is what underpins that ideology.

    Sex isn't a spectrum. It's two discrete groups with a small amount of overlap. Gender is a multitude of spectrums, a spectrum of spectrums if you like. An ever-changing multitude of spectrums, since it's almost entirely social. When I put on a dress I have greatly changed my position on one of the many gender spectrums for this society at this time. I haven't changed my sex in the slightest. I am a man who is temporarily very feminine on one of the multitude of gender spectrums. Feminine, not female. Utterly different thing. And yes, I have done that. I am talking from direct personal experience. I'm what used to be called a gender bender. Frankly, I like that term. I am a gender bender. TRAs who would claim me as a totem can go **** into the wind. I'm not their tool.

    Where I think we disagree is that I think that if a large enough change in physiology occurs then a person can reasonably be said to have changed sex.
     
  20. Mason-

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 18, 2010

    Posts: 4,919

    Location: Essex

    The cells used for reproduction.

    Yes because that’s how you sex animals that you can’t tell the difference externally. Look at the size of their sex cells. The reference to “if you need one” was for non mammalian species where it is incredibly obvious, e.g. reptilian or avian eggs.

    No it’s not a definition. It’s a method to sex species. If you want a definition it’s ones who have or do produce the larger sex cells (female) and the other case for male. And of course there are species that can just split their own DNA without a sperm.

    All definitions are “mostly true”. Sexes exist. Just because you can’t define something absolutely accurately doesn’t mean they cease to exist. Definitions, including your definition of a definition, are a man made concept. They can be perfectly logical in your hypothetical system. Real life isn’t hypothetical. You’re trying to apply the rational to something irrational. Humans, life, are not rational. There are no absolute rules. Only ones you postulate in your head and attempt to apply to what you perceive.

    Let’s narrow it to humans alone. It’s impossible to define female and male if your rule is that if you find a single exception then the definition is void. I never said 8 fingers and 2 thumbs is the definition for a human. I said part of the definition of a human is that they have 10 fingers. And if you come across a human who doesn’t have 10 fingers that doesn’t then mean that they aren’t human.

    Is it incorrect to say “humans have 10 fingers”? Or “humans have 2 arms”? Or 2 eyes? 2 ears? 1 nose?

    Of course not. They are all true. And yet you can find a human where they differ from these because they are anomalies. You can’t define a human. Because any definition you use there will be an exception. Or the definition will be so vague that it’s useless.

    Words mean whatever you want them to mean.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019