7970 vs 680 thread.

[ALXAndy]

so that would still make the GTX 680 the best value because it aint just down 2 the clock for clock scores is it ?

In the USA the 680 is the card to buy as it's cheaper, so that would be my recommendation.

In the UK, though? the 7970 can be had for around 10% less.

So, here in the UK we are being gouged. So, if I was asked which one here I would recommend the 7970.

Quite simply when all is said and done they are right around dead level. Even if you bring other factors into the equation (IE physx, heat, noise, power use) they are again, dead even.

The 7970 uses Zerocore, the 7970 has 3gb vram and massive directcompute performance. The 680 is quieter and uses less power, but only has 2gb.

I don't care how much people accuse me of being one sided because that really, truly could not be further from the truth.

I just don't like false claims and never have. I also don't like weighted and loaded comparisons because they are not fair.

Some one pointed out that I was sticking up for the 7970. In a way I am. I'm sticking up for both. I just want a fair set of results, with some truthful information.

If there was nothing to stick up for (with the 7970 in mind) then this thread would not exist would it?

Right from the off the reviews were fishy. That doesn't do Nvidia a lot of good IMO. And now we are beginning to see why they were fishy, because they were not true comparisons between the two cards.

 

[ALXAndy]

When the overclocked cards appear in the next few weeks or so, that should answer which card is the better overclocker.

Ideally AMD will drop the prices on the 7970 so that the factory overclocked cards can be priced alongside the stock GTX680's, just depends on if the claims that the 680's cost much less to make are true or not, though it makes sense that they are.

To cover your points. Right now the 7970 is already cheaper. It can be had for around £390. That's £40 or around 10% less than the 680. In the UK, of course, because in the USA Nvidia's last minute price drop rings true. Personally I think they realised deep down that performance was around level, so the cheaper card would sell. Good strategy !

Secondly let's cover the cost of the cards. It's not claims if you know what you are doing. The components on the 7970 cost far more and there are more of them (especially power stages as the AMD chip is a higher end part even though it doesn't perform properly as one) which all costs more.

The cooler itself (the aluminium part) is also larger, this points to higher costs to make.

There's a reason the 680 is as cool as it is with the cooler it has. It does not pack the wealth of technology the 7970 does.

So, in things that are non gaming related (like directcompute to aid with apps that support it, kind of like CUDA for folding) the 7970 is a far better card. However, that's not really going to be taken into account by the enthusiast, but certain things like overclocking and performance and so on will.

All of this (and the memory bandwidth and so on) all point to the 680 not only being a mid ranged intention, but that it cost a fair chunk less to manufacture.

 

[ALXAndy]

Out of interest,has anyone confirmed whether the maximum boost level is the same for ALL cards or varies from card to card,ie,is it a fixed maximum level determined by Nvida or will it depend on the individual chip only??

I've seen 1200 from one site, and 1250 from another. Nothing higher just yet.

 

[ALXAndy]

And this pretty much cover the double-standard I mention before.

When the features present on the Nvidia card and did not present on AMD cards, it is non-relevant; and when the same features are available on the AMD card but no longer present on Nvidia's card, the features are suddenly shining oh-so very important and a big advantage...hmmmm....

Are you being deliberately obtuse ? or, like many others are you either skim reading what I say or missing out on obvious things and then blowing them out of context ?

Quite simply when all is said and done they are right around dead level. Even if you bring other factors into the equation (IE physx, heat, noise, power use) they are again, dead even.

The 7970 uses Zerocore, the 7970 has 3gb vram and massive directcompute performance. The 680 is quieter and uses less power, but only has 2gb.

If you would simply like me to point out AGAIN that I think the 680 is a fantastic card and in the USA a better buy? I will. Because it's all there in text over the past few pages.

But if you are just going to magic things up out of thin air and then apply your logic to them then I wish you luck.

 

[ALXAndy]

A don asked for friendly banter and people are just going over the same thing over and over.

Because put simply some people come stomping into this thread and start hurling around accusations and bringing things up that were covered absolutely ages ago.

I will agree though that it's becoming incredibly tiring. Getting a bit tired of people walking in and then trying to score a point that was covered pages ago, only they couldn't be bothered to read the thread properly first

 

[ALXAndy]

Not on here it's not, and you know that works both ways.

The 7970 is £10 more expensive, but without knowing how long stock will be, it's probably fairer to say the 7970 is £20 cheaper.

As for the rest, well that was my point, AMD have more to lose from a price war than Nvidia, so it will be interesting to see how they handle it.

Well then once again maybe it's time people are more open minded?

And take all of the variables into account and not trying to over simplify it all to fit it to their logic?

Sure, some people would buy from OCUK before even looking around. Fair play ! There are also people who would go out and buy a 680 and sell their 7970 because they didn't take the time to look over things properly.

I think that's where the differences in opinion come up tbh.

In the USA the 680 is clearly cheaper, the entire US web over. It's not the same story here

 

[ALXAndy]

I could copy the links and make them work in a new one. Odd !

 

[ALXAndy]

So is it variable from card to card then?? I think this needs to be confirmed IMHO.

Wouldn't that make the stock performance of this card sample dependent??

That cannot be correct though so I must be missing something here.

Perhaps,what could be done is that GTX680 owners and HD7970 owners can run benchmarks at stock speeds,ideally with similar performing CPUs.

It will be interesting to see the spread of results over time,ie, is there any real world effect??

It seemed they did try and push the card as high as they could.

In reviews as we know they mostly have a single page with some benchmarks later in the review that covers the overclocking.

Tom is probably the only one I know who only really cares about overclocking, doing so before they even start (again, simple page explaining the settings and speeds) and fully includes the results in the graphs and charts.

 

[ALXAndy]

Atm the stock non custom non oc gtx 680 is beating the stock non custom non oc 7970, that is the simple fact at the moment.

Yes you can overclock the 7970 but you can do the same to the 680 and these custom 7970 1200mhz cards that are apparently coming out soon will do nothing against these gtx 680 2ghz cards that are apparently coming out.

We've covered that many pages ago also.

The last part? very good you've based fact on myth.

About the best thing you said in that post was -

Yes you can overclock the 7970 but you can do the same to the 680

The rest? Nvidia defence team. So, hopefully you can open your mind and work out that there is absolutely no favouritism going on in this thread. Well, certainly not from CAT or I any way, who seem to have been doing most of the hard work thus far.

All of the good bits of both have been pointed out over and over and over (and we get a new one in every couple of hours that repeats it all for us, especially how marvellous the 680 is) so we really don't need any more of it.

Benchmarks with both cards at their limits, please. We already have two sets (OC3D and Linus) and plenty of other info that suggest they are even.

If you can find a set of benchmarks where they are completely honestly both pushed to the limit and the 680 wins you will most certainly be onto something.

 

[ALXAndy]

On all the proper places they are around the same price, there isn't enough in it to make a difference, other than stock levels.

The problem is that when the GTX580 was over £100 more than the 6970 it still sold really well, and while it was faster it wasn't over £100 faster, so i think AMD pricing alongside Nvidia is a big mistake for them in the long run.

580 was faster than the 6970. Quite clearly, in absolutely every single way. Only time I ever saw a 6970 come close was the Lightning in the Vortez review @ 1050mhz. It just about scored some points on a stock 580.

It was clear then. It isn't now. Most certainly 100% completely, totally and utterly unclear.

But, from the murmurs of those who did decide to overclock both cards fair and square they seem right around level.

 

[ALXAndy]

Already posted I guess you missed it.


http://www.hardwareheaven.com/revie...gtx-580-oc-performance-review-conclusion.html

I didn't miss it. Just not enough yet. Overclock3D seems different, as do a few others.

 

[ALXAndy]

The information is good on that website I just despise the layout of the site and constant clicking and reloading of pages.

Yeah kinda sucks. Interesting results mind you. Also interesting how some sites base a "win" on max FPS whilst others concentrate on the minimums.

The Skyrim results, for example, are based on max FPS. 69 min for the 680, 75 or so for the 7970.

I think some one covered it well yesterday tbh. It's far more fun when it's so close and complex

Surely OcUK can muster 5 to 10 GTX680 users and 5 to 10 HD7970 users?? As long as they have similarly performing CPUs,they can run a bunch of benchmarks and see if there is much variance at stock clockspeeds within the cards themselves and between them??

Heck,you could even run the benchmarks again with newer owners in another month to see if newer cards show any difference too.

That would answer any questions surely and then everyone can be happy.

Sadly there's not much point in me bothering, because I usually don't catch upgraditis so only use a lowly 950 lol.

Mind you, I have to say I've been tempted over the past couple of days to borrow some cash and get a 680 just to put it to bed

 

[ALXAndy]

So your choosing to ignore my points about why that review and video cant be trusted.

No. I completely agree with you. A review and video can't be trusted. So that goes for every other review then, right?

As for whether I believe the results Tom achieved? Tom as in Tom Logan? yes, I do.

I know what equipment he uses. So, maybe he's made an error? prove it.

Go and ask him I guess ! because bottom line is the results.

 

[ALXAndy]

arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh exceeded bandwith on photo bucket. I will be back soon.

Haha not having a great day are you mate ?