8600 Ultra and 8600 GT

Lolcb · 13 Jan 2007 at 16:06

ps3ud0 said:
Sorry Lolcb but thats a load of rubbish - by the time DX10 applications (games and non-games for the sake of arguement) both ATI and nVidia will have a DX10 solution - only when they are both out can we determine what is best, to an extent I expect this to be primarily driver-driven (it will be a while until we get decent mature Vista DX10 compatible drivers)...

Where do you expect nVidia to dominate this non-existent DX10 market?!? Yes, they are the only ones with a DX10 product, but I dont know anyone whose used it for DX10 apps or expecting to use it for DX10 apps before the ATI product comes out...

ps3ud0

Yes I agree with you about the time when DX10 applications will come out.

But sometimes people don't wait till they are out to buy a card that is compatible with it ( me for example ).

And I think you misunderstood me, I did not say ATi cards will lose to nVidia and vice versa. What I am saying is how Nvidia cards will gain the upper hand this year in the DX10 market due to ATi releasing theirs a lot later.

Darkwave · 13 Jan 2007 at 16:10

Lolcb said:
Nvidia cards will gain the upper hand this year in the DX10 market due to ATi releasing theirs a lot later.

You mean like how Nvidia gained the upper hand in DirectX 9 by launching SM3.0 with the Geforce6 series?

Oh, wait...

Doing something first doesn't mean doing it right, or at the right time.

Lolcb · 13 Jan 2007 at 16:18

Ulfhedjinn said:
You mean like how Nvidia gained the upper hand in DirectX 9 by launching SM3.0 with the Geforce6 series?

Oh, wait...

Doing something first doesn't mean doing it right, or at the right time.

But it seems that nvidia is doing it right for the release of 8800GTS/GTX

Darkwave · 13 Jan 2007 at 16:30

Lolcb said:
But it seems that nvidia is doing it right for the release of 8800GTS/GTX

Really? Because I don't see any DirectX 10 titles myself, I only see a few coming out for quite some time.

I see DirectX 10 being a repeat of Shader Model 3.0, not only did it take a long time for even a handful of Shader Model 3.0 titles to come out, even now we only have one game out that requires it (thanks to the lazy folks at Ubisoft.) DirectX 10 will be the same in that it will take years to mature.

Even Tim Sweeny, the technical director at Epic Games in charge of development on the Unreal 3 engine, has said that DirectX 10 will offer almost nothing in the way of a graphical upgrade for some time but will emphasise "incrimental" boosts in performance/framerate instead. He even used the word "hype" in that particular interview.

ATI will have a DirectX 10 part out in the next couple of months, and no doubt a handful by the end of this year. Even they will still be too early jumping on the bandwagon, just trying to milk people for their money.

I'm not saying that the 8800s or 8600s aren't good buys, just that anyone who buys them strictly for DirectX 10 support is off their head. The reason to buy these new Nvidia parts is increased DirectX 9 performance and improved image quality, and to say that ATI are dead in the water for not jumping on DirectX 10 five months earlier is shortsighted at best and holds no more water for me than doomsday predictions.

Lolcb · 13 Jan 2007 at 16:39

I can always buy 2 R600 to x-fire and put it beside my GTX SLi :cool:

Best of both world innit.

Never said ATi is going to die, just saying that they are taking a lot longer than their rival. Which is obviously, a bad move.

queamin · 13 Jan 2007 at 17:42

Even Tim Sweeny, the technical director at Epic Games in charge of development on the Unreal 3 engine, has said that DirectX 10 will offer almost nothing in the way of a graphical upgrade for some time but will emphasise "incrimental" boosts in performance/framerate instead. He even used the word "hype" in that particular interview.

carmack said the same thing aswell

Carmack: It’s a tough thing for Microsoft, where, essentially, Windows XP was a just fine operating system. Before that, there were horrible problems with Windows. But once they got there, it did everything an operating system is supposed to do. Nothing is going to help a new game by going to a new operating system. There were some clear wins going from Windows 95 to Windows XP for games, but there really aren’t any for Vista. They’re artificially doing that by tying DX10 so close it, which is really nothing about the OS. It’s a hardware-interface spec. It’s an artificial thing that they’re doing there. They’re really grasping at straws for reasons to upgrade the operating system. I suspect I could run XP for a great many more years without having a problem with it.

It's looking like a lot of hype

queamin · 13 Jan 2007 at 17:44

The real battle for dx10 cards will be when there is some killers games out what are a lot better then dx9

Darkwave · 13 Jan 2007 at 17:47

queamin said:
carmack said the same thing aswell

It's looking like a lot of hype

Some would say Carmack is just defending his appreciation for OpenGL, but I agree with him personally. Both he and Sweeny are practically top-level experts in their field, and both have said less than positive things about DirectX 10 so far.

People are too caught up in the marketing and hype, expecting that DirectX 10 will be some saviour and revolutionise gaming/graphics. What they need to do is look back on the transition from SM2 to SM3, or even the transition from DirectX 7/8 to DirectX 9, and realise that they're getting their hopes up too high, too quickly. DirectX 10 will bring a lot of improvements to the table, but not the improvements they expect, at least not right away.

Anyone who buys an 8800/8600 or R600/R610/R630 purely for DirectX 10 before this time next year is pretty much on crack. They will be fantastic DirectX 9 cards, but for a while that is all they will be.

queamin said:
The real battle for dx10 cards will be when there is some killers games out what are a lot better then dx9

Exactly. I challenge anyone to name me a DirectX 10 killer app.

Timdog · 13 Jan 2007 at 17:50

any1 know if ther will be agp versions?

ps3ud0 · 13 Jan 2007 at 17:54

Lolcb said:
Yes I agree with you about the time when DX10 applications will come out.

But sometimes people don't wait till they are out to buy a card that is compatible with it ( me for example ).

And I think you misunderstood me, I did not say ATi cards will lose to nVidia and vice versa. What I am saying is how Nvidia cards will gain the upper hand this year in the DX10 market due to ATi releasing theirs a lot later.

I think I see your point - but my question was what do you define as the 'DX10 market', because right at this moment there isnt one, as there isnt 1 consumer application that supports or requires DX10 yet. So how can nVidia gain an upper hand in a market that doesnt exist, and when it does ATI should have a card out.

Yes, potentially more people will have a nVidia card compatible with DX10, but we are looking at the enthusiast sector which is a niche market, nVidia may dominant here, but in the whole scheme of things that means nothing (remember Intel are still the biggest GFX manufacturer by a massive amount).

This round wont be reliant on just plain hardware power, but will be to do with how quickly both manus get decent driver support (for Vista and DX10) - atm both are pitiful. What is the point of an 8800 when Vista still doesnt support it? ergo DX10 doesnt either (I just hope what either is promising actually happens)...

ps3ud0 :cool:

Pants · 13 Jan 2007 at 18:44

I wonder is 8600's will work in SLI on normal (x8 + x8 PCI-E) SLI motherboards?!

Yes please.

queamin · 13 Jan 2007 at 19:45

I do think people want/expect a lot from DX10 and it will take time, not many can or will throw all their eggs into DX10 basket like MS who has a lot to gain with vista.
I thought the bar was ment to be raised quite a bit for Dx10 but not sure now.

shrek2 · 13 Jan 2007 at 19:52

timmy1988 said:
any1 know if ther will be agp versions?

I really hope not. An 8600 ultra with 512mb of ram coming in under £170 will be the sweet spot.

Gashman · 13 Jan 2007 at 20:31

see NOW its goodbye to ATIs X1950 Pro, i don't see how the pro can hope to compete with this...8600 ultra looks like it'll be mainstream favourite, a smart move by NVIDIA, and i might be tempted into buying a G80 based GPU yet

~>Dg<~ · 13 Jan 2007 at 20:48

all depends on sweet price im in for one of these as 6gts always seem to b good value for money

phatboy · 13 Jan 2007 at 20:56

As much as we are all enthusiasts

I reckon that ATi would know better than to produce a whole new chip set and card range if the "end was nigh"

Nvidia & ATi have always battled it out over GPU Supremacy. I guess at this point in time its been Nvidia's day......but dont count the ATi/AMD squad out just yet.

Until the new gen of cards come out, we should hold our breaths i reckon

I have an Nvidia card and think it SUPERB, but at the same time ATi have a good back catalogue and a lot of experience in the same way, and I still fancy an X1950 at present over a 8800 (my budget etc etc)

I think its just a VERY exciting time for the industry and for us the enthusiasts in general

Will say tho.....them 8600's do look pretty sweet

Dark_Angel · 13 Jan 2007 at 21:51

Anyone want to take a guess at performance? I take it they will be a little better than for example the X1950 pro's?

Darkwave · 13 Jan 2007 at 21:54

Dark_Angel said:
Anyone want to take a guess at performance? I take it they will be a little better than for example the X1950 pro's?

Personally I am guessing that both models of the 8600 will be faster than the X1950Pro, probably faster than the X1950XT, as they have unified shaders which is a much more efficient architecture.

I could be wrong though.

Gashman · 13 Jan 2007 at 23:44

Ulfhedjinn said:
Personally I am guessing that both models of the 8600 will be faster than the X1950Pro, probably faster than the X1950XT, as they have unified shaders which is a much more efficient architecture.

I could be wrong though.

im with you on this one, im guessing around X1950XT/7900GTX performance maybe, possible around the 145 - 150 pound mark? problem is, is this gonna be a card that needs PCI-E power cable? :confused:

Darkwave · 13 Jan 2007 at 23:46

Gashman said:
im with you on this one, im guessing around X1950XT/7900GTX performance maybe, possible around the 145 - 150 pound mark? problem is, is this gonna be a card that needs PCI-E power cable?

The pic in the first post of this thread shows no power connector, so it looks like Nvidia have got the power draw right down on these cards.

If the image quality is as good as the 8800 Series cards, and the performance is a decent improvement over my X1900XT, then I will be buying one of these (assuming they are the right price, of course.)