A car manufacturer you will never buy?

Wouldnt ever buy anything French, anything from VAG, Vauxhall and having owned a BMW I wouldnt ever buy another again, not that anything went wrong with it as it was only 2 years old but I really dont see what the fuss is about and I hate the boring interiors.
 
naefeart said:
I've never been big into Jap cars having only owned an Evo and now a posh Toyota (Lexus), but im getting increasingly more impressed. If the reliability is as good as they say, all the Jap manufactures need to do now is crack german-look dashboards and ze Germans will be in trouble :D

I used to like Vauxhall back in the day but I'd never buy another. On top of all their issues they just don't handle well imo. I don't ever want a French car again either, but I think I would over a Vauxhall.

I don't see another German car purchase on the immediate horizon, I think the next will likely be an RCF or maybe a GTR.
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I hope they don't copy German dashboards. Same morbid designs for the last 20 years with no character*. If you want a German car buy German. If you want Japanese buy Japanese. Two different cultures, aesthetics, ways of thinking, two different product developments processes.

Also much of German car purchases is to do with the badge and the perceived prestigeness of it. So even if the Germans made the worst cars in the world, people would still flock to them.

*not every model of course.
 
French cars. Citroen and Peugeot especially known people who've had both and they were a deep, deep money pit and not particularly pleasant either but mother had a 106 a while ago and that wasn't bad, basic but ok for what it was so maybe they've improved recently...

dl8860 said:
Defensive Ford owner here. What Fords have you owned in the last decade that wasn't a Ka and was a heap of junk that got most things wrong?
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I've had lots of Fords they've all been good no complaints about any of them. The only downside is they're popular and hence overpriced so I've avoided them lately.

lordrobs said:
Kia / Hyundai are a prime example. Back when I started driving Korean cars were a joke, now they are well up there with the other middle of the road brands.
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This is interesting. I woudn't have gone near a Hyundai with a very long barge pole if you paid me but after I was stuck with a hire car after my car was written off (damn Tesco van) I was pleasantly surprised by it. Infact I liked it so much I went and bought one! The fact it was so much cheaper better value than the equivalent makes from other brands might have something to do with it (comes with not having the heritage/kudos/reputation I guess)... but yeah a year and a half later no regrets. Still surprised honestly.
 
Kia and Hyundai are a bit like a of a mix of German and Japanese now. Hopefully they keep the Japanese reliability and don't go full German :D
 
MissChief said:
It's also funny that people still believe in German engineering and quality and many still hold Mercedes-Benz and BMW (and VW to a certain extent) as wonders of engineering and reliability when they're anything but.

The 2018 JD Power reliability survey has a Peugeot in top spot for Best small car,
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The JD Power survey is an excellent way of finding out what various brand buyers expect of a car, and very bad at telling you what the actual reliability is. If people don't expect much, and get average reliability, they mark the brand up. If they expect perfection, and it fails to deliver, even if only by a tiny amount, it gets marked down. Any survey based on a self-selected group giving personal opinions is always suspect. I'd want to see the data from people like the AA, and warranty companies.

But for me:

Audi. Driven by Audi drivers.
Peugoet/Citroen. Break down a lot.
Hyundai/Kia. Japanese wannabees, utterly lacking in any character.
Poverty companies, like Dacia or SSangyong.

But I tend to be driven more by hatred of particular models:

Any SUV. There is no reason for these.
Beetle, Mini. Women's cars.
Corsa. Hateful little thing, and horrible to drive.
etc
 
Didn't Proton make a hatchback which had the handling worked over by Lotus? (Proton own Lotus). But yea, they are very basic cars.
 
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Satria GTi which was based on a Mitsubishi Colt and used some Lancer running gear.

Was a good car. They make good amateur rally cars as they are strong and a lot of the Lancer parts bolt straight on, like suspension components.
 
Must I whittle my list down to just 1? That's making it far too difficult ;)

Most in alphabetical order even! Only with a few at the top that are really high on my noooooo list.

Peugeot (worst brand of car I know of, worst build quality I have ever seen & even brand new they fall apart as soon as you leave the showroom... I might make a small exception for a 205GTI, can't believe they went so bad after making such a good car, even if it was more than 30 years ago)
Kia
Skoda
Range Rover (ok, I know that's not the brand... I just really strongly dislike them... but there is a possibility of having a proper Landy at some point)
Audi
Renault (perhaps with the exception of one of their purpose built race cars, they seem to kick out some poor road cars, but their race division comes out with some nice things)
Citroen
Fiat
Bowler
Bugatti (might be special, quick in a straight line and whatever else, but their heavy weight, no matter any clever suspension management of it, will make them unfulfilling in the twisties & that is where the fun of driving is for me... planting your foot in a straight line gets old, fast. Mastering corner entry, mid and exit speeds are where the fun is)
Caterham (I had one, a quick one and I found it bore me too quickly, didn't have longevity of the fun factor for me. Others love them and they are cool and quick cars, the standard width chassis being more enjoyable and playful than the SV, just not something that interests me any more)
Chrysler (they make such terrible vehicles, I'm not sure how they are still in business, although for some reason my mum is very fond of her convertible PT Cruiser... at least the convertible doesn't look quite as much like a hearse as the coupe)
Dacia
Daewoo
Daihatsu
Delorean
Hummer
Hyundai
Infiniti
Isuzu
Jeep
Lada
MG
Mini (modern Bini)
Mitsubishi
Morgan
Morris
Plymouth
Pontiac
Rover
Seat
Smart
Ssangyong
Subaru
Suzuki (cars only, they make great bikes)
Tesla (not the biggest fan of the feeling the power delivery gives you, from even the insane mode variant, it's weird - you know it's fast - unusually fast for a heavy saloon... just with such a flat torque curve, other than the very first throttle press, it doesn't feel quick and excite with the feeling of the acceleration, you just go quickly and know you're going quickly, but there's no life to it. To be a fair to the saloon, the chassis setup along with it's handling ability and feeling/communication back to the driver for such a heavy car impressed me. This entry on my list though, is more of a severe personal dislike for Elon Musk... I will give them some credit though, the way they have pushed the development of the electric car & deployed such a comprehensive matrix of fast charging stations over a wide footprint is commendable & the timeline they expanded that footprint was rather impressive, even if it was a vital requirement to make their vehicles somewhat viable to your typical motorist who has to take the odd journey past its range or didn't have the time or perhaps ability to top up the charge enough at home... even if recent financial troubles may indicate it's not the most financially viable business model... plus the unfavourably large number of reports of them voiding warranties and lumping massive repair bills on their customers is unacceptable business practice. Also, the new roadster that's coming in a few years looks to be an impressive leap forward in both acceleration and range)
Triumph
VW
Volvo


Honda would have made the list if they hadn't managed to kick out two incredible vehicles... the original NSX & S2000, both of which I would love to own some day.
Mazda too, but they make one of my most favourite cars ever - the MX5... the RX8 wasn't horrible either with a well balanced chassis & the modified RX7s are a welcome sight and sound.
Reliant is purposefully not on the list, because sticking a roll cage in one and doing a top gear on private land would be hilarious!
Toyota is another one that I'd have liked to stick on the list, again for their wide range of uninspiring standard models, but they have made some incredible vehicles in their time... like the MK1 & MK2 MR2 (I'll let them off for the MK3 because the first two are so good), Supra and Celica (especially the rally variant).


TMI? :D Was good to vent my frustrations of unfavourable marques ;)


Resident said:
Vauxhall.

Substandard vehicles and in my experience driven by council estate failed abortions. Oh an I also have no desire to sleep with family members, animals or children.
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I was almost tempted to agree with that, given the majority of the vehicles they churn out... but then I remembered the VX220, Monaro, VXR8 and the latest VXR8 GTS.

The VX220 hasn't really taken my fancy, but it still looks like a bit of fun if you fancy something a little different.

The near 600bhp from the latest iteration of the supercharged 6.2l v8 VXR8 GTS sounds like a fun prospect for a saloon & makes some great noises... only downside is you have to put up with the Vauxhall interior :/ I haven't had the chance to play with one yet, but one possible downside is I hear they don't manage their weight as well as you might hope & tend towards understeer (which is always frustrating, especially in a powerful RWD car).

/long long ramble over
 
Basically, unless they make/have made a car you like, then you're never ever going to buy from that manufacturer? That seems a very restrictive mantra.

I can think of a fair few manufacturers I'd generally avoid based on past experience, but I'm in the "never say never" camp. Fifteen years ago I would have scoffed at the idea of ever owning a Kia becuase they were generally considered to be a bit crap...we now own one and it's been brilliant. I'm not one to be too bothered by badge prestige.
 
There were no stipulations, required logic or reasoning specified in the OP.

Also, no stipulation that the list cannot evolve with time.

You never know, Peugeot might come out with some incredible new supercar at sportscar prices that is one of the best vehicles ever made.

I highly doubt it, but they did well for themselves in LMP not too long ago, so the possibility can't be ruled out entirely.


Just because I don't fancy one, through generally not much more than personal preference... doesn't mean I think they're all terrible.

Kia, like you say, have made some really impressive strides in their build quality, comfort, styling and more, while keeping prices reasonable. I can appreciate they are a very good option for the price, even offering some options with a pleasant combination of sportiness and practicality & respect how they've developed... looking at the 10+ year old things they were kicking out, I would not have guessed back then they would develop as well as they have... doesn't mean I would like one for myself ;)

If I'm objective instead of subjective, Kia, Audi, Bugatti and Caterham are probably the best brands in my "no thanks" list.

But as it stands at the moment, I won't be buying a vehicle from any of those brands... even if they might happen to offer a good quality product at a reasonable price.

While ever I have the opportunity to, I select my car purchases based upon how they make me feel... even if it's only a subtle iota of passion they can stir in me, then they get some attention from me. Or if they are unable to do that, then there must be a viable utility they offer that I'm in need of in order to ignore that criteria. Other than the odd cheeky outlier I have pointed out above & other than some things their racing teams may have produced, I don't think those marques produce a single vehicle that can make my danglies tingle, even so subtly I might struggle to notice ;) I would be very interested to be proven wrong on that, with something funky I've completely forgotten about.
 
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It is quite sad how Peugeot are percieved now. They dominated Rally, Dakar, European touring cars and Sports car racing in the 80's and 90's. They made reliable cars that were top of their class. The Peugeot 405 was a thing made of granite and even the 406 after was a good car. It just all seemed to go downhill with the introduction of the 206.
 
adam cool dude said:
It is quite sad how Peugeot are percieved now. They dominated Rally, Dakar, European touring cars and Sports car racing in the 80's and 90's. They made reliable cars that were top of their class. The Peugeot 405 was a thing made of granite and even the 406 after was a good car. It just all seemed to go downhill with the introduction of the 206.
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Yeah, great shame... they have put out some fantastic cars in the past.

Funnily, it was a 206 that pushed them straight to the top of my **** list.

My grandmother purchased an 8 year old 206 with only about 50-60k miles on the clock... and age and mileage where, while you won't expect everything to be perfect, you'd still expect to have a reasonable and useable car. That thing was unimaginably dangerous and unroadworthy, no clue what dodgy MOT garage let that thing pass... unimaginably bad in how much was wrong with it & it's not an isolated occurrence, I've seen other Pugs that aren't particularly old that have turned into junk... while you might consider that such a reasonably priced vehicle is likely to be bought and run by people who have no idea how to look after a vehicle and that might explain some of those things, as you'd see in other brands too. It seems worse than that to me.

The ones I've seen all appeared to have significant build quality issues.

After that fiasco, I took my gran to find a new car... because she felt comfortable with her 206, despite it's issues, her first dealer of choice was Peugeot... I tried to talk her out of it, but instead we agreed to at least look at a few different dealerships and try a couple of things so she had the data to make an informed decision.

We looked at a brand spanking new 206, barely more than delivery miles & took it for a test drive... I got behind the wheel too.

Can barely describe how terrible it was... the gearbox felt like slush and there was absolutely no feedback as to the location of the gears, you had to push it in what you hoped was the right direction and clench your buttocks as you released the clutch to prepare yourself for selecting 2nd when you meant to grab 4th. Everything felt loose and wobbly, as it they'd not bothered to tighten any of the bolts holding it together & forgotten to weld the chassis in various places. It felt like the bushes were heavily worn... you'd be forgiven for thinking this was a 10 year old car that had spent the majority of its life being ragged on a race track... not had the displeasure of driving anything quite that bad & I've driven some dodgy vehicles.

We went to Nissan, Honda, Mitsubishi & Seat... all that she tried she was eager to admit felt sooo much better than the Pug.

Ended up choosing a Honda Jazz... which was the one I was hoping she would pick :)
 
I had the same experience driving an almost new Corsa a while ago. The controls just had no feel at all.

What's scary is you can't feel when grip is going, it always feels the same. Stick some crappy tyres on it and it's probably why I keep seeing cars like this in ditches every winter.
 
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Like many car companies, even Mercedes they started chasing profit over quality in the 90's and board rooms and decision makers were accountants rather than engineers. Quality took a nose dive and the perception that the car only needs to be reliable for the length of the warranty period took hold. Peugeot and PSA are starting to recover but their reputation took a battering noted above with the introduction of the 206 and 307 ranges after the wonderfully loved and successful 205 and 306.
 
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