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A victory for free speech for everyone

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Faustus, Oct 10, 2018.

  1. inogen

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 19, 2009

    Posts: 3,025

    Take that back or I'll take you to court.
     
  2. inogen

    Mobster

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    Posts: 3,025

    See how far you get if you ask them to post it to you in parcel reading "ALL DPD SUCK ****".
     
  3. inogen

    Mobster

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    Tbf, most people aren't religious bigots. Esp when it comes to money.
     
  4. stockhausen

    Capodecina

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    Posts: 9,254

    Let them eat baguette - as Marie Antoinette didn't say.
     
  5. angel102

    Gangster

    Joined: Feb 1, 2013

    Posts: 303


    it's simple, the baker isn't the one getting married so it's a mute point. It's nothing to do with free speech, it's just bigotry, plain and simple, something very common in Northern Ireland particularly when it comes to so-called Christians.
     
  6. angel102

    Gangster

    Joined: Feb 1, 2013

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    Well atleast it would be factual given my experience with many of their drivers, but that wasn't what was asked for on the cake, it was nothing of the sort in fact.
     
  7. Hotwired

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 17, 2009

    Posts: 6,519

    You don't need to be religious to turn down work you don't want to do.

    Have you never heard of people turning down work because it's against their principles.

    If it's your name on your work and you care enough about such things then the money doesn't matter.

    All you need is to have some kind of limit and the capacity to stand up for it.

    So here we are at a ruling that it's not illegal for a baker to refuse to write slogans in icing if he's unhappy with the message because it's tacky/contradicting religious conviction/other.

    Just as long as he equally refuses it to everyone and not just gays which would be illegal.
     
  8. kindai

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 9, 2013

    Posts: 6,215

    Location: Bromsgrove

    And whats wrong with that?

    I dont care for anyone rubbing their sexuality in my face, regardless of orientation.
     
  9. inogen

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 19, 2009

    Posts: 3,025

    No. But when you do because you are, you need to expect people to think you’re a religious nut job.

    I’m all for free speech. It gives people rope.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  10. inogen

    Mobster

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    My local DPD driver is solid. But that wasn’t really my point.
     
  11. inogen

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    Or black people...
     
  12. Cern

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    Location: London

    Yes of course people can turn down work. But as you point out, it's not legal to refuse someone a service on the basis of their age, gender, disability, race, religion, sexual orientation etc.

    Of course in many cases it is rather hard to prove the precise reason someone is refusing a service unless they out and out say it, plus it's possible to hide behind refusing the detail of the work rather than the customer themselves (even if in reality these are often one and the same thing). Hence the court case is in a grey area which has seen judgements in both directions.

    The shop would have been better to just have a 'no slogans' policy, then it's same for everyone. The problem comes when you start to cherry pick which slogans you do and don't object to.
     
  13. koolpc

    Capodecina

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    Location: Under The Desk, Wales

    You against free speach?
     
  14. angel102

    Gangster

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    That would be illegal regardless of being straight or gay.
     
  15. kindai

    Soldato

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    Location: Bromsgrove

    Touché :D
     
  16. Hotwired

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 17, 2009

    Posts: 6,519

    You're tunnel visioning into the gay activist vs the christian baker case as if the only reason you can think of is religion.

    I'll demonstrate something else where nothing illegal is going on but people are regularly challenged as to where they draw the line and say no to the work.

    Modelling. Acting.

    What you do. What you are used for. How much you value your modesty.

    Designers, artists, musicians.

    We want to commission work which will promote things that you are against.

    All quite worthless principles really. All in the mind. Maybe an image thing going on. Just take the money and do the work yeah.

    Or... you can have the conviction to refuse requests that clash with what you want to be known for.

    No religion needed.
     
  17. Rifte

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    I was always under the view that freedom of expression is fine as long as it doesn't impact on someone else's freedom of expression.

    Decision seems logical to me.

    Yeah sure capitalism will ensure that the LGBT community never shops there again.....but I am sure the bakers were aware of that
     
  18. kedge

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    Huge sum of money wasted for some bloke who got uppity because he was refused the slogan "support same sex marriage" on a cake.
     
  19. inogen

    Mobster

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    Posts: 3,025

    You’re right. But the reason why the bakers wouldn’t put the message on the cake is because they’re religious nutjobs. And that’s fine. They’re allowed to be. That’s free speech.

    We made a similar product at work not long ago. We had no such qualms. Probably because as a company and as individuals we don't believe in the eternal fires of damnation or whatever. It's fine to see the ruling of this case as a good thing, without seeing the actions of either party as good or wise.

    Also, I don't see the actions of the bakers as particularly Christian. It's hardly forgiveness and loving your neighbour is it? I don't remember anything in the teachings of Jesus about being principled about icing on cakes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  20. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 29,909

    Simiallry, a huge waste of money because some blokes got all uppity and didn't want to bake a cake for a paying customer.