Poll: Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021, Yas Island - Race 22

Rate the 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix out of ten. If you want. I can’t be arsed.


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Soldato
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Certainly wasn't for how much of a role model he is

0_FORMULA-1-ETIHAD-AIRWAYS-ABU-DHABI-GRAND-PRIX-2021.jpg

he made racism etc more aware around f1 etc. his done a lot behind the scenes. not just racing but using his platform to try and eradicate racism sexism etc.
 
Soldato
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Did you forget about the red flag in Imola where Hamilton was lapped, had a damaged car, was allowed to repair his car AND unlap himself for free, ending up 2nd eventually when without the red flag he wouldn't even have scored points?

The Imola where Max shoved Lewis off the track at the first corner damaging his car?

He started the season driving dirty, and it only got worse as it went on.
 
Soldato
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If we're doing ifs and buts then you can say Lewis was lucky himself in Russia as he wanted to stay out like Lando and only reluctantly pitted when told for 2nd or 3rd time. If he did, then Max would have won that race. But that's why this season was so good as there were plenty of curve balls throughout.
Last sunday wasnt a curveball mate!!!

That was mor elike playing one of the old codemaster f1 games, your 2nd with no hope of grabbing the win, u pause the game and u enter a special cheat code on console that makes your car magically have better tyres whilst destroying the drver that is 1st and u got one lap to easily overtake that car in 2nd gear if you wanted
 
Soldato
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You mean the Baku where Max was miles ahead and had an unfortunate tyre failure, gifting Hamilton the chance at the win which he threw away?

You mean the Spa where all of the top 10 were awarded points, not just Max?

Did you forget about the red flag in Imola where Hamilton was lapped, had a damaged car, was allowed to repair his car AND unlap himself for free, ending up 2nd eventually when without the red flag he wouldn't even have scored points?

Taken off another forum which kind of shows how much ahead Verstappen would have been if luck was not a factor:

Breakdown:

Italy - Hamilton runs into the wall and was set to come out dead last, also needing heavy repairs and would not have scored any points - before Bottas instantly saved his race by colliding with Russell causing a red flag resulting in free repairs and no more positions lost for Lewis.

Points gained by Hamilton in the championship: +19 (HAM 19, VER 0)
--
Baku - Verstappen set to win the race and take 25 points vs Hamiltons 15 before his tire blow out.

Points gained by Hamilton in the championship: +10 (HAM 29, VER 0)
-
Silverstone - Max leading the race set to bag 25 vs 18 point to Lewis, before Lewis is deemed guilty of causing a collision and "punished" by stewards in a way that did not affect his race.

25 points for Verstappen and 18 for Hamilton became 0 for Verstappen and 25 for Hamilton who could only finish the race because of a red flag he himself caused and gave him free repairs.

Points gained by Hamilton in the championship: +61 (HAM 61, VER 0)

-
Hungary - Hamilton probable to win and take 25 vs 18 Vs Verstappen before Bottas causes a crash that takes out both Red Bulls.

Points gained by Hamilton in the championship: +18 (HAM 79, VER 0)
-
Monza - Hamilton set to score more points than Max before the crash Max was deemed guilty of causing. HAM 12 - VER 10)

Points gained by Verstappen in the championship: +2 (HAM 79, VER 2)
-
Russia - Verstappen set to finish 7th and Hamilton 2nd before the rain comes in, 18 points for Hamilton and 6 for Verstappen became HAM 25, VER 18.

Points gained by Verstappen in the championship: +5 (HAM 79, VER 7)
-
Abu Dhabi - Hamilton set to win easily before Masi turnes the tables completely at the last lap.

Points gained by Verstappen in the championship: +14 (HAM 79, VER 21)

Total summary of points gained by luck/factors out of control: Points gained by Lews 79 Vs Points gained for Verstappen 21.

To not complicate things further I did not include any stuff like the ramifications that happened to Red Bulls engines after the Silverstone accident which you could argue makes the points Max made up by luck in Russia not relevant because the only reason he was in a position to lose points that race was because of the Silverstone crash Lewis caused.

In the end Hamilton gained 58 points in the championship compared to Verstappen.


Without luck getting involved the final championship standings would have ended

Max Verstappen 374.5 (-21)
Lewis Hamilton 308.5 (-79)


Lastly, if only the Silverstone crash/lottery had ended on the opposite with Lewis retiring and Max finishing (with all the other luck still counted for) the standings would have finished.

Max Verstappen 420.5 (+25)
Lewis Hamilton 362.5 (-25)
 
Associate
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I don't get all the anger about Hamilton not winning it. After 22 races they were so close that it came down to one race director decision on the last couple of laps of the last race. It's not like the FIA and Michael Massi attached lead weights to Hamilton's car all season. They both had good and bad luck throughout the year, with decisions both going their way and against them that could be debated. Yes, the focus is on this one as it was the last race, but it had no more effect overall than the controversies at Silverstone, Spa, Brazil, Qatar or even first couple of laps of Abu Dhabi.

After that season, both deserved to win. Annoying that the Michael Massi mistake happened right at the end but really there was so much that happened during the season this is just another to add to the list. It swung this way and that all year. Toto's comments today weren't really worthy of him (though I can imagine Horner would have been worse had it been the other way around).
 
Soldato
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Taken off another forum which kind of shows how much ahead Verstappen would have been if luck was not a factor:

Breakdown:

Italy - Hamilton runs into the wall and was set to come out dead last, also needing heavy repairs and would not have scored any points - before Bottas instantly saved his race by colliding with Russell causing a red flag resulting in free repairs and no more positions lost for Lewis.

Points gained by Hamilton in the championship: +19 (HAM 19, VER 0)
--
Baku - Verstappen set to win the race and take 25 points vs Hamiltons 15 before his tire blow out.

Points gained by Hamilton in the championship: +10 (HAM 29, VER 0)
-
Silverstone - Max leading the race set to bag 25 vs 18 point to Lewis, before Lewis is deemed guilty of causing a collision and "punished" by stewards in a way that did not affect his race.

25 points for Verstappen and 18 for Hamilton became 0 for Verstappen and 25 for Hamilton who could only finish the race because of a red flag he himself caused and gave him free repairs.

Points gained by Hamilton in the championship: +61 (HAM 61, VER 0)

-
Hungary - Hamilton probable to win and take 25 vs 18 Vs Verstappen before Bottas causes a crash that takes out both Red Bulls.

Points gained by Hamilton in the championship: +18 (HAM 79, VER 0)
-
Monza - Hamilton set to score more points than Max before the crash Max was deemed guilty of causing. HAM 12 - VER 10)

Points gained by Verstappen in the championship: +2 (HAM 79, VER 2)
-
Russia - Verstappen set to finish 7th and Hamilton 2nd before the rain comes in, 18 points for Hamilton and 6 for Verstappen became HAM 25, VER 18.

Points gained by Verstappen in the championship: +5 (HAM 79, VER 7)
-
Abu Dhabi - Hamilton set to win easily before Masi turnes the tables completely at the last lap.

Points gained by Verstappen in the championship: +14 (HAM 79, VER 21)

Total summary of points gained by luck/factors out of control: Points gained by Lews 79 Vs Points gained for Verstappen 21.

To not complicate things further I did not include any stuff like the ramifications that happened to Red Bulls engines after the Silverstone accident which you could argue makes the points Max made up by luck in Russia not relevant because the only reason he was in a position to lose points that race was because of the Silverstone crash Lewis caused.

In the end Hamilton gained 58 points in the championship compared to Verstappen.


Without luck getting involved the final championship standings would have ended

Max Verstappen 374.5 (-21)
Lewis Hamilton 308.5 (-79)


Lastly, if only the Silverstone crash/lottery had ended on the opposite with Lewis retiring and Max finishing (with all the other luck still counted for) the standings would have finished.

Max Verstappen 420.5 (+25)
Lewis Hamilton 362.5 (-25)

You can't say Silverstone would have "bagged" Max 25 points tbh, it was the first lap.

Similarly, Spa isn't included in there which favoured Max by 5 points. It's interesting to read but not entirely accurate.
 
Soldato
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Its hilarious how you and others are making this STILL about Max, yet Merc and Toto have clearly stated it has absolutely nothing to do with him.

What you quoted doesn't make it 'about Max' it just means it includes Max. Which it does. Max did nothing wrong. I don't think anyone is saying he did? He was gifted a win he didn't earn though. Yes, this has happened before (normally the rules have still been followed though) but for it to happen on the deciding race is quite new. This makes it he was actually gifted the Championship he didn't earn.

We have a Max fan at work, I find it amazing she says 'But the rules were followed, Masi can do whatever he likes with the safety car'. Really?
 
Soldato
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I don't get all the anger about Hamilton not winning it. After 22 races they were so close that it came down to one race director decision on the last couple of laps of the last race. It's not like the FIA and Michael Massi attached lead weights to Hamilton's car all season. They both had good and bad luck throughout the year, with decisions both going their way and against them that could be debated. Yes, the focus is on this one as it was the last race, but it had no more effect overall than the controversies at Silverstone, Spa, Brazil, Qatar or even first couple of laps of Abu Dhabi.

After that season, both deserved to win. Annoying that the Michael Massi mistake happened right at the end but really there was so much that happened during the season this is just another to add to the list. It swung this way and that all year. Toto's comments today weren't really worthy of him (though I can imagine Horner would have been worse had it been the other way around).

I’m sure there are some people annoyed Hamilton didn’t win. However most of us aren’t annoyed at who won, it’s how it was won that’s the issue.

Under no circumstances should the FIA be breaking their own rules to add excitement or drama.
 
Soldato
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You can't say Silverstone would have "bagged" Max 25 points tbh, it was the first lap.

Similarly, Spa isn't included in there which favoured Max by 5 points. It's interesting to read but not entirely accurate.

I can tell that's biased towards Max :p

Silverstone - Hamilton at fault
Monza - Verstappen "deemed" guilty of causing (as in, I don't agree it was him at fault)

AFAIK the official wording was "predominantly to blame" for both incidents.
 
Soldato
Joined
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Up north in Sunderland
Well that's that then, Masi will likely remain and it will be a **** show again.

Won't be putting myself out to watch next season.

If Merc nail the new regs and they are in the fight Lewis will fight. If they aren't (I don't think they will be myself) he will likely give them a season or two to get there and retire if a championship just isn't on the cards. He doesn't have much to loose by staying a couple more years in the hope of being able to go for the 8th, but he won't linger too long if not in the fight.

Be interesting to see if he has a desire to race in something like Le Mans, he has loads of other interests outside of F1 (not looking forward to the Album lol)
 
Soldato
Joined
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22,676
We have a Max fan at work, I find it amazing she says 'But the rules were followed, Masi can do whatever he likes with the safety car'. Really?

Shock as Red Bull driver fan supports arguments that Red Bull suggested as justification for Masi's actions :p
 
Caporegime
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Taken off another forum which kind of shows how much ahead Verstappen would have been if luck was not a factor:

Breakdown:

Italy - Hamilton runs into the wall and was set to come out dead last, also needing heavy repairs and would not have scored any points - before Bottas instantly saved his race by colliding with Russell causing a red flag resulting in free repairs and no more positions lost for Lewis.

Points gained by Hamilton in the championship: +19 (HAM 19, VER 0)
--
Baku - Verstappen set to win the race and take 25 points vs Hamiltons 15 before his tire blow out.

Points gained by Hamilton in the championship: +10 (HAM 29, VER 0)
-
Silverstone - Max leading the race set to bag 25 vs 18 point to Lewis, before Lewis is deemed guilty of causing a collision and "punished" by stewards in a way that did not affect his race.

25 points for Verstappen and 18 for Hamilton became 0 for Verstappen and 25 for Hamilton who could only finish the race because of a red flag he himself caused and gave him free repairs.

Points gained by Hamilton in the championship: +61 (HAM 61, VER 0)

-
Hungary - Hamilton probable to win and take 25 vs 18 Vs Verstappen before Bottas causes a crash that takes out both Red Bulls.

Points gained by Hamilton in the championship: +18 (HAM 79, VER 0)
-
Monza - Hamilton set to score more points than Max before the crash Max was deemed guilty of causing. HAM 12 - VER 10)

Points gained by Verstappen in the championship: +2 (HAM 79, VER 2)
-
Russia - Verstappen set to finish 7th and Hamilton 2nd before the rain comes in, 18 points for Hamilton and 6 for Verstappen became HAM 25, VER 18.

Points gained by Verstappen in the championship: +5 (HAM 79, VER 7)
-
Abu Dhabi - Hamilton set to win easily before Masi turnes the tables completely at the last lap.

Points gained by Verstappen in the championship: +14 (HAM 79, VER 21)

Total summary of points gained by luck/factors out of control: Points gained by Lews 79 Vs Points gained for Verstappen 21.

To not complicate things further I did not include any stuff like the ramifications that happened to Red Bulls engines after the Silverstone accident which you could argue makes the points Max made up by luck in Russia not relevant because the only reason he was in a position to lose points that race was because of the Silverstone crash Lewis caused.

In the end Hamilton gained 58 points in the championship compared to Verstappen.


Without luck getting involved the final championship standings would have ended

Max Verstappen 374.5 (-21)
Lewis Hamilton 308.5 (-79)


Lastly, if only the Silverstone crash/lottery had ended on the opposite with Lewis retiring and Max finishing (with all the other luck still counted for) the standings would have finished.

Max Verstappen 420.5 (+25)
Lewis Hamilton 362.5 (-25)

Conflating luck/on track incidents with what happened isn't very useful. I could highlight loads you havent even listed there (like Jedda for example). These are all part and parcel of racing.

Max got supremely lucky in Jedda and Abu Dhabi regardless of anything else (ie all the accidents gave him loads of free pit stops/opportunities to close the gap), but if he still won it without Masi's decision i would have been fine with that. That is racing.

Having the lead official make up a rule that gives Max the trophy is not what i would put under the same category as "luck".
 
Soldato
Joined
27 Feb 2015
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9,473
Are people still trying to treat the Masi decision as getting the wrong end of the stick of a racing incident?

I am not sure if they just dumb or been obtuse at this point.
 
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