Acceptable to hit someone with a whip when they're grabbing your horse?

Soldato
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I've watched the video, and maybe she did charge the protester, maybe she didn't. I'm not sure exactly how much control you have over a horse, I've never ridden one. But it was a short video and who knows what has happened before and after. But i'll stick to my original statement that both sides are idiots.

Exactly, the video is hardly impartial. who knows what was said before, maybe the kind of things that you've mentioned. It can be edited easily enough.

Not that I have a great deal of sympathy for the hunters, the very few people I've come across who hunt on horseback have been morons with a superiority complex - but not quite in the same league of unpleasantness as the animal rights protestors I've come across. In truth, I couldn't really care if hunting on horseback is allowed or banned - I suspect that's true for most people.

In my experience, they are just normal everyday individuals. One is a single mum with her daughter running the stable and working 2 other jobs. Certainly not the upper-class toff's one would imagine hunting appeals too, not saying you don't get them but they aren't all like that.

Also, foxes may be cute and furry but they are still vermin and need to be controlled. That being said, hunting them with dogs is a pretty inefficient way of doing it and possibly crueller than other methods.

I've seen and heard about many hunts, I'm against fox hunting in this way, but not one of them has involved a fox. It's all been a scent trail laid and the dogs track that.
 
Caporegime
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I notice you carefully inserted the word domesticated in there

:confused:

I said 'domesticated' because that horse is domesticated.

but I don't see that an animal being wild suddenly makes it okay to be mistreated.

Neither do I. You can remove the word 'domesticated' if you like; it doesn't change my point. I'm against cruelty to animals. Killing should be as swift and painless as possible.

Being torn apart by dogs whilst alive, for example.

That's a common myth. Hounds bite the back of the fox's neck by instinct, and their jaws are strong enough to break it instantly. Death is immediate. Unlike cats, hounds don't toy with their prey. The chances of a fox being 'torn apart whilst alive' are extremely slim.

If you want an example of a sport that's unavoidably cruel, just look at fishing. Dragging an animal out of the water with a hook in its throat while it suffocates, and sawing its head off while it's still alive is simply outrageous. Yet I don't see the sabbers chasing anglers.

Nope. Its class warfare nothing more.

Colour me unsurprised.
 
Soldato
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And if it were a court of law, they might get off. But I'm pretty sure they weren't riding out with their horses, their quads and their fancy jackets to dig out rats. Do you honestly think so?

My point is that there are far too many people guessing about what happened before, what other people were doing there etc

I am sure everyone agree's animal cruelty is wrong, to the fox, the horse and any other animals. But we've not seen a fox, no evidence was provided that a fox was in danger. I've seen it said that there must have been a fox or the sab's wouldn't be there in the first place, which is flawed logic. A lot of the pro sab's posts on facebook are politically motivated, nothing to do with the fox, it's about right vs left, class wars.

All we know for a fact is that she attacked him after he grabbed the reins, that she appeared to be charging the horse around but could also have been trying to keep it under control. We don't see what leads to this confrontation in the first place, everyone has a breaking point. I'm a calm man and it can take a while but I can and will snap if pushed enough. We see the sab's being asked to leave the land and return to the road as they are trespassing. That's about it.
 
Soldato
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I think fox hunters should be fair game while out hunting. It's not real hunting without a bit of risk. Imagine how much more fun it would be for them if there's a chance a sniper could pick them off from a mile away. It would make amazing viewing too.
 
Caporegime
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If you want an example of a sport that's unavoidably cruel, just look at fishing. Dragging an animal out of the water with a hook in its throat while it suffocates, and sawing its head off while it's still alive is simply outrageous. Yet I don't see the sabbers chasing anglers.

What are you talking about? In the UK, freshwater fishing is catch and release under a license fee that helps the upkeep of our waterways. Most fish in the UK are well cared for and live in well maintained lakes and rivers. The only legal freshwater kill is salmon or trout and is done for food, same as sea fishing. There’s nothing wrong with killing fish for food. An angler catching his dinner is certainly more environmentally friendly than endless trawlers ploughing through the sea 24/7.

The main problem in the UK is immigrants poaching carp, but they are dealt with very harshly if caught.
 
Soldato
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6,748
My point is that there are far too many people guessing about what happened before, what other people were doing there etc

I am sure everyone agree's animal cruelty is wrong, to the fox, the horse and any other animals. But we've not seen a fox, no evidence was provided that a fox was in danger. I've seen it said that there must have been a fox or the sab's wouldn't be there in the first place, which is flawed logic. A lot of the pro sab's posts on facebook are politically motivated, nothing to do with the fox, it's about right vs left, class wars.

All we know for a fact is that she attacked him after he grabbed the reins, that she appeared to be charging the horse around but could also have been trying to keep it under control. We don't see what leads to this confrontation in the first place, everyone has a breaking point. I'm a calm man and it can take a while but I can and will snap if pushed enough. We see the sab's being asked to leave the land and return to the road as they are trespassing. That's about it.
except they had to tools to do actual fox hunting.

a lot of the posts might be left v right, but fundamentally the issue lies in the treatment of the fox. You can shout class war all you like, it's still an abhorrent practice, just one which toffs happen to do.

All we know is the she appeared to be charging the horse around AT the protestors first, then he grabbed the reins, then she hit him. This distinction seems to be slipping passed a few people.

B@
 
Associate
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Depends on the context. We don't know what led to the altercation but rest assured, if some toff on horse back raised a whip to me I'd drag them off and kerb stomp them.

That said, I'm just that way inclined. Blood sports should be banned. Do the foxes know they are just playing a "sport"?
 
Soldato
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Stoke area
except they had to tools to do actual fox hunting.

So any time I go into the garden with my spade and dog I'm potentially going fox hunting? There's a number of things they could have been doing with terriers, quads and spades... They could have been going to dig out another dog that got stuck down a rabbit hole. You may well be right, but I prefer proof instead of assumptions.


a lot of the posts might be left v right, but fundamentally the issue lies in the treatment of the fox. You can shout class war all you like, it's still an abhorrent practice, just one which toffs happen to do.

At no point have I said it's not a disgusting practice, I am dead against fox hunting but all for trail hunts. There was no proof this was a fox hunt,

All we know is the she appeared to be charging the horse around AT the protestors first, then he grabbed the reins, then she hit him. This distinction seems to be slipping passed a few people.

No, we know she appeared to be charging the horse at the protesters, we don't know what happened first because the footage starts when the protestors are already talking and approaching the horse and rider. If you wanted to make a group of people look terrible a good way of doing that is to record them, push them until they snap and then crop the footage to show that you'd done nothing wrong. People don't just charge horses at people, it would take provocation to make someone do that.
 
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