Advice: Getting large companies to pay you your worth

Vanilla

Vanilla

Vanilla

Soldato
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18 Oct 2002
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We've got a wide range of people here, some who have been working for many large companies and even working for HR.

I work for a well known IT company, a market leader. I've been there for 18 months.

Looking at job adverts for identical jobs i'm currently paid HALF the market rate for someone with my skill and experience. There are a few others at work in the same position as me.

I started off on a relatively low wage (for the industry). I had a pay rise recently which although nice was still a slap in the chops. Every appraisal i've had has got the top marks available.

I always get the usual 'our hands are tied, it's head office' talks. 'We're trying to do something for this October' etc. Usual stuff.

I think it's getting to the stage where the only way to get market rate is go somewhere where i'll get it (somewhere else).

My Questions

Those of you who know big companies - are their hands really tied or is this common practice (especially when you have many people in the same position, every month you delay is cheaper labour).

What is the likelyhood of getting double pay? As far as I know this is unheard of unless you've just handed your notice in and they want to keep you!

I'd hate to do the 'x company is going to pay me much more will you match it'. What I might do it tell them their pay is uncompetitive, if they don't make it competitive then i'll go. That way i'll have given them the chance to make it right before moving on. However can large companies up pay like that? After months of 'our hands are tied' I guess i'm not sure what they can and can't do.

Yes I have told them the pay sucks but I think it's time for the 'this isnt compeitive hint hint' chat.
 
In my experience... pay is anomolous. People with the same status in the company don't get the same pay (sometimes varying wildly) - if you're not getting a larger slice of the pie, consider moving on.
 
Without knowing the full details of your job and company its hard to say but is your wage comparable to your co-workers? are you on a company pay scale? if so then no chance will you get anything like a 100% increase. Large companies will go on what others in a similar position to yourself are currently paid.

Also these jobs that pay double are they in the same location are they exactly the same job, do they offer the same benefits as your current employer, is the pay dependant on experience ?Just because a job is advertised at say "up to 30k" or "30k dependant on experience" doesn't mean you will start on 30k base when you join.
 
mattx2 said:
Without knowing the full details of your job and company its hard to say but is your wage comparable to your co-workers? are you on a company pay scale? if it is then no chance will you get anything like a 100% increase. Large companies will go on what others in a similar postion to yourself are currently paid.
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There are some people the same level on more. What really get's me is there are some new joiners who have no industry experience but i'm sure are on more than myself. Just shows that 'it depends'.

I accepted a low wage as I was quite wet behind the ears. Others I know for a fact told them to lump it so the company offered them more (some still took a pay cut to join).

Also these jobs that pay double are they in the same location are they exactly the same job, do they offer the same benifits as your current employer, is the pay dependant on expeience ?Just because a job is advertised at say "up to 30k" or "30k dependant on experience" doesn't mean you will start on 30k base when you join.
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Same locations (London), pretty much the same job, some very similar, others are same industry and job but want me for competitive reasons.
 
Vanilla said:
There are some people the same level on more. What really get's me is there are some new joiners who have no industry experience but i'm sure are on more than myself. Just shows that 'it depends'.

I accepted a low wage as I was quite wet behind the ears. Others I know for a fact told them to lump it so the company offered them more (some still took a pay cut to join).

Same locations (London), pretty much the same job, some very similar, others are same industry and job but want me for competitive reasons.
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Sounds like the postion I was in a few months ago, I just moved it was only when I handed my notice in that they offered me a pay rise and promotion (still no where near what I was going to get) I told them to stuff it.

If your going to leave the company then theres no reason not to have a chat with your boss, you don't ask you don't get. Even if they only offer a small amount just take it and continue looking for somewhere better :)
 
It's a comon situation. Many poeple, some paid more than others, new joiners getting more, etc.

I've already been promoted three times internally. The position i'm in now is fully fledged....however at none of these promotions was I given I pay rise. Only the one rise a few weeks ago which really doesn't satisfy me. Nice place to work, but not for half price so to speak!
 
very very common situation. Market leader can get away with paying less as they know there will be a queue of people fighting to do your job if you leave. Working for the market leader looks great on your CV.

Going to ask for a rise might work but I doubt it. If they don't have to give you a raise (i.e. to keep you at the company) then they wont. It is only worth giving you a raise to offset the costs of hiring someone new and training them up to your level of experience.

This approach worked for me- I applied for and got offered a job with another firm for much better money. I went and spoke to my line manager, not to hand my notice in but just to discuss that I had been offered much better money elsewhere but was really happy here and wanted to stay if at all possible. Basicly said I really didn't want to leave but I needed the extra cash to buy a house etc. They didn't match the salary offered but increased mine to a level that was much more competitive.

It is a frustrating situation to be in and I can really empathise with you. I would start looking for new work and maybe try what I did. If it doesn't work then leave and get the extra dough!

Good luck!
 
Youstolemyname said:
This approach worked for me- I applied for and got offered a job with another firm for much better money. I went and spoke to my line manager, not to hand my notice in but just to discuss that I had been offered much better money elsewhere but was really happy here and wanted to stay if at all possible. Basicly said I really didn't want to leave but I needed the extra cash to buy a house etc. They didn't match the salary offered but increased mine to a level that was much more competitive.
Good luck!
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My dad did the same a few weeks ago and did get the pay rise equal to the place he applied (i think). I would recommend you do the same because otherwise it will just eat at you and you will lose motivation to work.

SAm
 
Vanilla said:
Getting large companies to pay you your worth
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To be honest, it depends what you mean, because you can look at that more than one way.

The first way is that you must be worth more than that because others are getting more than that. The only way you'll find that out is if you either threaten to leave, or resign. If they don't offer you more to stay, you aren't worth more to them.

The second way is that you can get more by going elsewhere. Even if true, it doesn't mean that your current employer can't get someone to do your job for the same as you're currently getting, or at least, less than the double you seem to be after. What you're worth to someone else may not be the same as what you're worth to your current firm.

If you work for a large organisation, the odds are that local managers won't be able to get anywhere close to doubling your pay, because they won't have control over pay. They might have a pot of money to dish out for pay rises, but it'll be department wide, and you getting more means someone else getting less. At that point, managers have a balancing act on their hands. To be honest, letting them get away with what they have to date suggests they may see you as .... erm .... pliable.

You might be able to get a pay rise by talking to your boss, but if you do, be very careful indeed how you do it, or you just end up marking yourself as dissatisfied. If your boss thinks that and he has no real ability to manoeuvre on pay, he's going to assume he's going to lose you sooner or later, and he'll start making plans (like bringing along other people).

I would suggest you have three available strategies :-

1) Convince your boss that you are really happy at the place and don't want to leave, but ..... etc. Do NOT make it sound like an ultimatum. And .... it can backfire.

2) Get another job offer, then use that to negotiate. But be aware, that may also mark you. If, on the other hand, you really do have unique skills, it's a strong move.

3) Leave. One of the reasons people often move jobs is precisely to increase pay. Firms often have to pay a recruitment bonus to get good staff in a competitive arena, andf that means less in the pot for existing staff ..... especially those that stay put through inertia, lack of ambition of lack of drive.
 
Leave and go somewhere else. You may find that your current employers will reassess the situation when this happens. Do you really want to stay if they don't look after their most valuable asset - the staff? There's no point going to them without a job offer in your hand.

I ended up leaving a huge IT firm a couple of years ago because they were not delivering on promises made and I'd not had a pay rise in over 2 years (not even an inflationary adjustment). I had transferred from another location and was on 15% more than my colleagues because they needed my skills. I'd had enough and opted to go back home and work for local government with it's inflationary increases and a proper pension scheme. I'm not regretting it 2 years later.
 
If you can get a job elsewhere that pays more then go for it.

Be warned though, going in and saying "I'll leave if you don't match/give me xx" isn't a great start, I bet 99% of people are easily disposable so they will just say fine go then :(

I could do with more cash but I know there's no way I could walk into the bosses office and say I want more or I'll leave. Even though some things I do no one else does, and the other stuff only 2 others do, no one is indispensable and they'd just say mind the door doesn't smack you on the way out :)

If you can actually get offered a better paid job then it's a bit different as if they say fine cya later you actually have somewhere to go and don't look a numpty :)

*edit* ok the guy above said pretty much the same lol, that'll teach me to not read the last post...
 
Thanks for the input

Sequoia said:
1) Convince your boss that you are really happy at the place and don't want to leave, but ..... etc. Do NOT make it sound like an ultimatum. And .... it can backfire.
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Already done. I got the maximum he could give me (it is a percentage). As you say he has a pot to dish out.

2) Get another job offer, then use that to negotiate. But be aware, that may also mark you. If, on the other hand, you really do have unique skills, it's a strong move.
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Personally I would never do this. As you say it would mark me. If I leave for another company citing 'better opportunities for me at this time' then I leave the door open to return. However if I try and get them to match it it kind of spoils things.

3) Leave. One of the reasons people often move jobs is precisely to increase pay. Firms often have to pay a recruitment bonus to get good staff in a competitive arena, andf that means less in the pot for existing staff ..... especially those that stay put through inertia, lack of ambition of lack of drive.
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Yup, this is looking more likely. It's just the thought of doing it! :)
 
Vanilla said:
...

Personally I would never do this. As you say it would mark me. If I leave for another company citing 'better opportunities for me at this time' then I leave the door open to return. However if I try and get them to match it it kind of spoils things.....
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That's why I said to be very careful how you do it.

If you say "match this or I'm leaving", you'll probably get the reaction you mention i.e. it spoils things.

But, if you present it rather more subtly, as "an opportunity has arisen and it's too good to turn down. You've enjoyed working with ... reluctant to leave but ..." etc, then you can leave the door open to a counter-offer. But, personally, I'd leave it as no stronger than leaving the door open. This is why I said that this option requires you to have a job offer to negotiate with - you may need it.

It's also when you find out how valued you actually are. If you leave that door open and they don't even try, well ..... draw your conclusions from that.


It's an unpleasant fact of life that most employers will do their level best to keep wage bills as low as possible. That's why so many people move jobs every year or two. But, of course, money isn't the only factor involved in deciding whether to move. Experience, stability and security are important, as is the "feel good" factor. Is it worth moving to a better paid job you hate? It depends. Maybe, especially if it's a stepping stone for career advancement. But then, maybe not - job satisfaction is also important. And any job change involves an element of risk on the "hate it" front.
 
It's my experience that you tend to get paid what you're worth (Well, what the company thinks you're worth). If your existing company is not willing to pay to your expectations then move on.

It's quite common for someone that has moved up through the ranks of the same company to be on less than new starters as it's far easier for a company to promote existing staff than to recruit new ones. Due to this, they often offer larger salaries to tempt people into the company.
 
R4z0r said:
It's my experience that you tend to get paid what you're worth (Well, what the company thinks you're worth). If your existing company is not willing to pay to your expectations then move on.

It's quite common for someone that has moved up through the ranks of the same company to be on less than new starters as it's far easier for a company to promote existing staff than to recruit new ones. Due to this, they often offer larger salaries to tempt people into the company.
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I vehemently disagree with your first statement. Companies do not pay people what they are worth. They pay people what they can get away with.

I've always known this but I think one only fully appreciates the huge variation in remuneration and benefits that exists in most companies once you've been working for a few years. It sucks!

I think the only solution is moving around lots, internal pay reviews are generally pathetic. I think the analogy of a 'captive audience' is applicable - they rely on most people staying with them and just coasting.
 
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