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Afghanistan - 20 years on

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by GreatAuk, 6 Jul 2021.

  1. FoxEye

    Caporegime

    Joined: 17 Feb 2006

    Posts: 28,316

    Location: Cornwall

    Kamala is just Biden her time. She'll be Prez Harris before too long.
     
  2. sprite1275

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 9 Jul 2013

    Posts: 1,937

    So how would all this be being played if trump was still at the helm?
     
  3. lemonkettaz

    Capodecina

    Joined: 28 Nov 2005

    Posts: 12,582

    The world would of been taken over by the taliban if it were Trump.

    Our Lord saviour Biden had saved us, but of course not with Harris, strong ethnic women saved our souls.
     
  4. Blackjack Davy

    Soldato

    Joined: 16 Aug 2009

    Posts: 5,627

    How do you think? This place would be in meltdown with lefties throwing their toys out of the pram right left and centire. Possibly a baby Trump doll flying over London...
     
  5. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: 30 Jul 2013

    Posts: 23,863

    Probably exactly the same, albeit in May instead of now.

    Plus many posters criticising Biden here, would be defending Trump :D
     
  6. lemonkettaz

    Capodecina

    Joined: 28 Nov 2005

    Posts: 12,582

    Misinformation.
     
  7. cu3ed

    Capodecina

    Joined: 26 Jan 2006

    Posts: 11,459

    Location: Belfast

    Member that time Trump invited the Taliban leadership to stay with him at Camp David... Pepperidge Farm remembers.
     
  8. godinman

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 26 Feb 2007

    Posts: 8,031

    This is incredibly humiliating for the USA, and us for that matter.

    "He also said it would not be necessary to send US troops into Kabul to extract trapped Americans, claiming that the Taliban was permitting airport entry to anyone holding a US passport." BBC (Biden)

    They're having to rely on the word of the Taliban because they let the city be overrun, amazing.

    Having said that, if they do end up having to go in and extract people it would make for an epic film in a few years.
     
  9. lemonkettaz

    Capodecina

    Joined: 28 Nov 2005

    Posts: 12,582

    Trump isn't managing this well at all, can't wait until he gets voted out.
     
  10. CaptainRAVE

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 21 Nov 2004

    Posts: 39,262

    He’d be sending the American troops to rescue the people stranded in Kabul.

    Thank goodness for our special forces. I just hope all our troops get out of the airport in one piece.

    This has made the US look very very weak.
     
  11. cu3ed

    Capodecina

    Joined: 26 Jan 2006

    Posts: 11,459

    Location: Belfast

    He wouldn't, he negotiated this deal remember.
    Sure it makes th US look weak, and the UK, we followed them in like a lost puppy. Then France German, Nato, they all look like fools.
     
  12. StriderX

    Caporegime

    Joined: 18 Mar 2008

    Posts: 28,146

    Whilst it was inevitable that we'd leave (proof from centuries millennia of attempts), it still must be making the political/military strategists in Beijing and Moscow giddy with joy.
     
  13. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 13 Oct 2006

    Posts: 78,023

    I don't think we really know what would happen under Trump - I'm not even sure he knows. He was so unpredictable no one really knew if he was about to start WW3 or roll over.

    Unlike the US though most other countries weren't standing there going things are fine, "we aren't going to be seeing scenes like Saigon never gonna happen", etc. even literally as it is happening... this has left the US looking weak and is likely going to result in China having a bit of a go a testing just how weak they may or may not be.
     
  14. StriderX

    Caporegime

    Joined: 18 Mar 2008

    Posts: 28,146

    I think it's reasonable to assume that he'd not care about the people on the ground as per his character flaws (his policies of attacking refugees would also lead me to a negative conclusion), but he would care about how it made him look and anything for a photoshoot with people 'he' saved would probably make an incentive for him to act. So it would have depended how his team (which was tiny by the end) could engineer his action such that he superficially benefited from it.

    The chaotic element means that I can't really make a judgement, but the intentions and motivations are somewhat easier to describe. Though I'm not quite sure how to deal with Biden's as whilst his experiences lead me to believe he has some source of empathy (son dying, almost losing another), he's been in politics so long I can't help but be suspicious.
     
    Last edited: 21 Aug 2021
  15. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 13 Oct 2006

    Posts: 78,023

    Yeah as I said once before:

    Trump has zero empathy and zero self-awareness.

    Despite a polished image Biden a less pleasant streak tends to come out when things don't go his way. He has got narky with or lashed out at reporters, etc. a few times i.e. when Putin ran rings around him, even if the reporter kind of deserved it, he snapped at them out of frustration. Has nagged and berated people on several occasions over stuff where his administration threw obstacles in their way which is basically bullying. This deal he seems to have rushed at for the big political win despite even if it had gone down in a more managed fashion would still have come with a lot of suffering. That is pretty much the measure of him IMO.
     
  16. Malevolence

    Capodecina

    Joined: 21 Oct 2011

    Posts: 17,526

    Did we? Are you saying that we shouldn't have initially gone into Afghanistan to root the terrorists out and simply told the US to do one, completely reneging on our commitment to Article 5 of the NATO charter?
     
  17. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: 30 Jul 2013

    Posts: 23,863

    Contentious, as Afghanistan (or the Taliban government in charge at the time) didn't attack the US.

    A Saudi Arabian national plotted it, and the terrorists who carried it out were from Saudi, UAE, Lebanon and Egypt.

    They used Afghanistan as a staging ground for their training camps.

    In 20 years the US spent up to 2 trillion dollars there. We spent 80 billion. They didn't really need us, and the people who bombed London in 2005 cited the UKs involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq as the cause.

    Unfortunately we won't ever know what things would have been like if we had said no.
     
    Last edited: 21 Aug 2021
  18. lemonkettaz

    Capodecina

    Joined: 28 Nov 2005

    Posts: 12,582

    Looks like the backstabbing has started in the US over Biden, he seems to be getting contradicted by everyone else. Are they deliberately wheeling him out to say things they know will look bad?

    Anyone genuinely believe he will last the term?
     
  19. Johno please?

    Mobster

    Joined: 9 Jun 2005

    Posts: 4,243

    Location: Wiltshire

    Yea but I don't think you should not do things just because some little bearded fascist might get upset and blow you up, we shouldnt give up free speech and satire because that also makes them want to kill... a point better made by christopher hitchens.

    "It was argued for a while that the 7/7 perpetrators were victims of unemployment and poverty, until their remains were identified and it became clear that most of them came from educated and reasonably well-off backgrounds. The excuses then abruptly switched, and we were asked to believe that it was Tony Blair's policy in Iraq and Afghanistan that motivated the killers. Suppose the latter to be true. It would still be the case that they belong to a movement that hates Jews and Indians and all kuffar, or "unbelievers": a fanatical sect that believes itself entitled to use deadly violence at any time. The roots of violence, that is to say, are in the preaching of it, and the sanctification of it."
     
  20. iamtheoneneo

    Capodecina

    Joined: 15 Mar 2010

    Posts: 10,012

    Location: Bucks

    This is a true test and he is failing. Everyone looks bad here but maybe getting him in front of a camera every few days to basically say 'I dont care' is not a good idea.

    They need more troops and staff there its that simple. Constant reports now of legit passport holders waiting outside for days ... this can not be happening.