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Alec Baldwin fatally shoots woman with prop gun on movie set

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Le Clandestin Brun, 22 Oct 2021.

  1. ttaskmaster

    Capodecina

    Joined: 11 Sep 2013

    Posts: 11,327

    Basic safety in principle, yes, but not with the burden falling on the actor to make up for the dereliction of someone else.

    The bit earlier on where you were basically asserting that actors should have a level of competency equal to the safety specialist. It took a few pages, but several people pointed out that not all firearms are the same and it often takes a specialist with far more than just 'basic safety' training to provide a sufficiently qualified declaration of safety. Actors will almost never have that level of competency, and neither will anyone else who would generally need to know a weapon was safe.
    Therefore, if you wanted to hold actors fully responsible, you would need additional regulations and training put upon them.

    And their only course of action in that situation should be to halt production until a competent armourer can come take responsibility for weapon safety.
     
  2. ianh

    Soldato

    Joined: 12 Jul 2007

    Posts: 6,237

    Location: Norfolk.

    I'd say that is whats causing most of the arguments, as some would say "the firer should always check regardless" and others believe differently. I'd guess that, due to the lack of this being far more common, whatever procedures used on set seem to be usually enough, but once in a while enough failed safety issues will line up and you get an accident like this. I mean it could be that these incidents are extremely common but a last second check has prevented things going further and they've never been reported widely, or the sets could be extremely safe, I've no idea unfortunately.

    From what I remember we always had to upload/download our own Live mags under supervision a Range Warden/NCO/Officer whilst another detail was on point, 20rd boxed usually (oh how I wished for stripper's on a cold range day :D) but IIRC for exercises with BFA's and blanks you had to give a pre-shoot statement (the old "no live rounds in my possession etc" one) whilst your kit/pockets was inspected for any Live rounds/mags which may have snuck in. Only after that could you get access to the blanks and mags but, again it was load your own but our group size was usually <30 with just IW's making it far easier to control than doing say a full company assault with SF fires etc.

    I don't think Dowie said that "full" responsibility was with Baldwin, only that he a responsibility to check. Again there maybe a little blurring of previous posts as I don't think anyone has said "Only Baldwin is to blame" but instead ""Baldwin is also to blame, alongside the others" although with hundreds of replies that may be difficult to go back through to confirm.
     
  3. dowie

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: 29 Jan 2008

    Posts: 53,748

    No one said they should make up for it.

    I didn't say that - which post are you referring to?

    That also isn't what I claimed.

    Yes, not just carry on and take the word of the non-armourer then... I mean that's part of what I'm objecting to here. You seem to have been arguing against some points I didn't make though.
     
  4. mburn_83

    Hitman

    Joined: 1 Jun 2004

    Posts: 528

    Location: Chryston, Glasgow

    RIP to the poor woman.

    It seems that massive negligence caused this tragedy; why were they using real guns, how did a real bullet get anywhere near the set and what was Baldwin doing pointing a real gun towards anyone...
     
  5. Dyson

    Soldato

    Joined: 18 Jan 2007

    Posts: 5,394

    Location: Dorset

    Really don't know how some of you have the energy to keep going round and round in circles in this thread.
     
  6. Colonel_Klinck

    Soldato

    Joined: 3 Oct 2007

    Posts: 6,494

    Location: London, UK

    Oh I think we know. Its the usual armchair experts you get in all such threads.
     
  7. bainbridge

    Mobster

    Joined: 9 Dec 2009

    Posts: 4,475

    Location: Bristol

    I can understand how people who are firearms trained can point the finger at Alec for being negligent, but it's an actor's job to wave prop guns around, point them at people and discharge them while pointed at them.
     
  8. Colonel_Klinck

    Soldato

    Joined: 3 Oct 2007

    Posts: 6,494

    Location: London, UK

    Don't be coming in here with logic like that.
     
  9. mburn_83

    Hitman

    Joined: 1 Jun 2004

    Posts: 528

    Location: Chryston, Glasgow

    Is it a prop if it can fire?

    If Baldwin was aware that this was a real gun - what was he doing?
     
  10. jonneymendoza

    Capodecina

    Joined: 7 Apr 2008

    Posts: 18,937

    Why was a real gun on the set to begin with?
     
  11. Dis86

    Suspended

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    Location: Northern England

    It's a hauliers job to drive a wagon, doesn't mean they don't need a driving licence...
     
  12. Raymond Lin

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: 20 Oct 2002

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    Location: Wish i was in .Lethal's house

    Acting?
     
  13. dowie

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: 29 Jan 2008

    Posts: 53,748

    They sometimes fire blanks on movies still rather than relying on CGI etc.
     
  14. something daft already!!

    Soldato

    Joined: 11 Jan 2007

    Posts: 6,505

    Location: South East

    America
     
  15. chaparral

    Capodecina

    Joined: 27 Nov 2005

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    Location: Guernsey

    This may answer that question of why there was real guns and ammo on the site/set
    Last known photo of Halyna Hutchins emerges showing inside chapel where Alec Baldwin fired fatal shot (msn.com)
     
  16. visibleman

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 3 Jun 2005

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    Location: The South

    Same as any other practical effect, ie - they generally look better than composite CGI.
     
  17. jonneymendoza

    Capodecina

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    Why was it loaded?

    Same **** killed Brandon Lee and that was murder
     
  18. JBuk

    Capodecina

    Joined: 28 Nov 2002

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    Location: Cumbria

    Anything on a movie set is a prop whether it’s real or not , I read he was rehearsing a scene
     
  19. [FnG]magnolia

    Pancake

    Joined: 29 Aug 2007

    Posts: 27,407

    Location: Auckland

    I know this is slightly off topic but every time one of these threads comes up it reminds me to make the pitch for my new TV show (it is called Expert versus Dickspert) which revolves around a panel of genuine, accredited experts in their field pitted against a bunch of armchair enthusiasts with far too much time and too little knowledge. Each week the teams discuss a new topic and the entertainment comes from the utter belief the non-experts have in their own opinion and the real experts crushing them with facts. BUT - and here is the kicker, my dudes - every now and again the non-experts just about come up with a new angle where their opinion isn't just utter, utter garbage and it gives the real experts something to think about. This is what will keep the viewers coming back.

    I'm pretty pumped about this one so I'll let you know how I go.
     
  20. jonneymendoza

    Capodecina

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    Lol
     
  21. chaparral

    Capodecina

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    Location: Guernsey

    But surely they don't need real ammo/bullets for this :confused:
     
  22. Dis86

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    Location: Northern England

    Welcome to the thread. That question was answered on page...1.