Alec Baldwin fatally shoots woman with prop gun on movie set

Man of Honour
Joined
13 Oct 2006
Posts
81,761
It would make sense for a revolver loaded only with dummy rounds though. I was wondering myself a little while ago why they didn't do that in this case.

I guess the answer is that there should be no doubt about what's loaded in a gun by the time you're ready to start using it, although if Clooney says that's what has happened on film sets he's worked on in the past then it's probably true. Agree the fact no one qualified seemed to be shouting to the media that Baldwin should have done this does suggest again that safety procedures vary massively from set to set, which does seem to indicate a bit of a problem for the film industry.

He is not the only one to make comments along those lines - several actors who have been in movies like Saving Private Ryan, Windtalkers, etc. have said they've never heard "cold gun" used on set and have always had the gun demonstrated as safe for them and/or been part of checks themselves.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
5 Dec 2003
Posts
20,148
Location
Just to the left of my PC
"Every time I get handed a six gun, you point it at the ground and you fire. You squeeze it six times. Always.”

This sounds like porkies. How do they ever shoot any scenes if they fire all the rounds loaded into prop guns at their feet every time? Also, can you imagine pre-scene checks for Saving Private Ryan?

That would be a good point if Clooney had said they fire all the rounds loaded into prop guns at their feet every time. But he didn't. He was talking specifically about revolvers (and probably mid to late 19th century American revolvers since that's what's usually meant by "a six gun") and obviously he wasn't talking about firing at his feet (who would do that other than to deliberately wound themself?). How many revolvers were used in Saving Private Ryan? Probably some, but revolvers weren't a main weapon in WW2.

That smells like ***** to me for no other reason than that should the ground be concrete or steel, doing so would be spraying bullet fragments all over the place.

"a six gun" would probably be in a "Wild West" setting so the ground usually won't be concrete or steel. It probably wouldn't be an issue most of the time. If it was, you'd use some other safe target.
 

v0n

v0n

Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
8,129
Location
The Great Lines Of Defence
That would be a good point if Clooney had said they fire all the rounds loaded into prop guns at their feet every time. But he didn't. He was talking specifically about revolvers (and probably mid to late 19th century American revolvers since that's what's usually meant by "a six gun") and obviously he wasn't talking about firing at his feet (who would do that other than to deliberately wound themself?). How many revolvers were used in Saving Private Ryan? Probably some, but revolvers weren't a main weapon in WW2.
"a six gun" would probably be in a "Wild West" setting so the ground usually won't be concrete or steel. It probably wouldn't be an issue most of the time. If it was, you'd use some other safe target.

Angilion, don't take my jibe "at their feet" so literal - what I'm getting at is this:
- it makes no sense to discharge prop weapons (revolvers or any other hand gun) EVERY TIME before filming, because they were loaded specifically to be fired in front of the camera, if every actor in a 'wild west' movie was to fire all the blanks every time before filming they might as well not load them at all.
- granted, I never worked on the set where ammunition or guns were used but in my limited experience I also never heard of a hand over technique involving firing weapons (loaded with blanks or otherwise) AT THE GROUND. I'm sure Yanks also use clearing barrels for that purpose?

On a side note - where would Clooney use a revolver? Cohen brothers movie?
 
Caporegime
Joined
23 Dec 2011
Posts
29,167
Location
Northern England
Angilion, don't take my jibe "at their feet" so literal - what I'm getting at is this:
- it makes no sense to discharge prop weapons (revolvers or any other hand gun) EVERY TIME before filming, because they were loaded specifically to be fired in front of the camera, if every actor in a 'wild west' movie was to fire all the blanks every time before filming they might as well not load them at all.
- granted, I never worked on the set where ammunition or guns were used but in my limited experience I also never heard of a hand over technique involving firing weapons (loaded with blanks or otherwise) AT THE GROUND. I'm sure Yanks also use clearing barrels for that purpose?

On a side note - where would Clooney use a revolver? Cohen brothers movie?

It's about dummies, not blanks. This has already been stated to you. Do your eyes work?
 

v0n

v0n

Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
8,129
Location
The Great Lines Of Defence
It's about dummies, not blanks. This has already been stated to you. Do your eyes work?

And that changes what while handling fire arms?

Also... "stated to you", "do your eyes work"... spoon me sideways, the level of discourse... whatever happened to this forum, it's bad... let me just give you one Clint Eastwood glance and pout and I'm out... That's enough of that.
 
Caporegime
Joined
23 Dec 2011
Posts
29,167
Location
Northern England
And that changes what while handling fire arms?

Also... "stated to you", "do your eyes work"... spoon me sideways, the level of discourse... whatever happened to this forum, it's bad... let me just give you one Clint Eastwood glance and pout and I'm out... That's enough of that.

It changes a hell of a lot. Perhaps you shouldn't argue from a position of complete and utter ignorance.
 
Soldato
Joined
12 Jul 2007
Posts
6,605
Location
Norfolk.
And that changes what while handling fire arms?

I think the point being made is that "dummy bullets" are not the same as "blank bullets" as dummies are unable to be fired because they are emptied of all propellant material (i.e. no "gunpowder" for example), so while they look like real bullets they are infact completely safe and therefore pulling the trigger on a firearm loaded with "dummy bullets" might be a quick way to ensure that those "dummy bullets" are infact dummies as nothing would happen each time you pull the trigger.

However, with "blanks" which ARE designed to be fired to create a gunshot look/sound, your point about it being ridiculous is absolutely correct, which is why they don't/wouldn't do that.

So it seems like a simple miscommunication issue between "non-firing dummies" vs "fireable blanks".
 

v0n

v0n

Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
8,129
Location
The Great Lines Of Defence
It changes a hell of a lot. Perhaps you shouldn't argue from a position of complete and utter ignorance.

Well, you know, not all of us have as many armchair google degrees or will ever reach the dizzy heights of the industry and firearm knowledge some posters here clearly possessed since that fatal day in October... You have to forgive my "utter ignorance", I don't work directly on set. Like you do. (ohyou.gif)

ianh said:
So it seems like a simple miscommunication issue between "non-firing dummies" vs "fireable blanks".

So Clooney was talking about prop masters demonstrating safety of six shots filled with dummies by "firing" them at the ground? How do we know that, I didn't get that bit from the article?
 
Caporegime
Joined
23 Dec 2011
Posts
29,167
Location
Northern England
Well, you know, not all of us have as many armchair google degrees or will ever reach the dizzy heights of the industry and firearm knowledge some posters here clearly possessed since that fatal day in October... You have to forgive my "utter ignorance", I don't work directly on set. Like you do. (ohyou.gif)



So Clooney was talking about prop masters demonstrating safety of six shots filled with dummies by "firing" them at the ground? How do we know that, I didn't get that bit from the article?

I mean it's not as if it's some deep level knowledge and hasn't been discussed at end in this very thread.

Oh. Wait...

It's also not like I literally told you it was for dummies not blanks.
 

v0n

v0n

Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
8,129
Location
The Great Lines Of Defence
Because the gun in question was supposed to be loaded with dummies...

Well Dis86, I might have been wrong about you... abrasive demeanour or not, in just one sentence you provided me with more information than the entire Independent article...

So every time they get the gun with dummies they test it by squeezing the trigger with fire arm pointing at the ground... Shake up in procedures is definitely in order...
 
Soldato
Joined
14 Dec 2005
Posts
4,434
I think the point being made is that "dummy bullets" are not the same as "blank bullets" as dummies are unable to be fired because they are emptied of all propellant material (i.e. no "gunpowder" for example), so while they look like real bullets they are infact completely safe and therefore pulling the trigger on a firearm loaded with "dummy bullets" might be a quick way to ensure that those "dummy bullets" are infact dummies as nothing would happen each time you pull the trigger.

However, with "blanks" which ARE designed to be fired to create a gunshot look/sound, your point about it being ridiculous is absolutely correct, which is why they don't/wouldn't do that.

So it seems like a simple miscommunication issue between "non-firing dummies" vs "fireable blanks".

thanks...I was also thinking that firing EVERY round at the ground seemed pointless as you'd just be in some endless loop!
 
Caporegime
Joined
30 Jun 2007
Posts
68,615
Location
Wales
It changes a hell of a lot. Perhaps you shouldn't argue from a position of complete and utter ignorance.

Heh remember when earlier in the thread you were arguing that checking the chamber was empty was a safety check?

Pot and kettle
 
Caporegime
Joined
23 Dec 2011
Posts
29,167
Location
Northern England
So it's not any firearm like you just said?




Also nope you're still wrong on the reason.

There's no way you could ever be looking at full chamber on those weapons unless there's been a malfunction nothing to do woth "semi auto"

Hint for your Google search it's based on the mechanical function of many automatic weapons.

You can most definitely inspect the chamber on those weapons. How do you think they eject the casing?
 
Top