Alexander Litvinenko Case - British Response

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I have quite strong feelings on this. Whilst I applaud the fact 4 Russian diplomats were expelled today, I don't feel this goes far enough.

The British government must not tolerate foreign countries playing games on British soil. This really must be pushed.

I can't speculate whether there is enough evidence to strongly support the accusations against Andrei Lugovoi, but I choose to trust my government on this. There seems to be a relatively strong cross party consensus.

Step up the pressure on Russia.
 
Russia aren't happy...

Moscow condemned the UK's position as "immoral" and said the expulsions would have "serious consequences".

Former KGB agent Mr Litvinenko died of exposure to radioactive polonium-210 in London in November 2006.

The Foreign Office has not named the four Russian diplomats, but the BBC understands they are intelligence officers.

Mr Miliband told MPs Russia was an important ally and the situation was one that Britain had "not sought and does not welcome".

But he said it was necessary to send a "clear and proportionate signal" to Russia, about the seriousness with which Britain regarded the matter.

Russia's Foreign Ministry chief spokesman Mikhail Kamynin said: "London's position is immoral.

"Moreover, in London they should clearly realise that such provocative actions masterminded by the British authorities will not be left without an answer and cannot but entail the most serious consequences for Russian-British relations".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6901346.stm

:eek:
 
You do realise that Russia are just as able to put pressure on us, don't you?

Although I agree with the response thus far, I don't feel it would be sensible to push them further from an objective context. Russia are currently making a big fuss over that missile thing in the former Soviet bloc and the government seem to be keen to assert their 'authority' where they can. Call it a delusion of time past if you like, but it's still something that we can't ignore. There is still fear of another potential (albeit unlikely IMO) Cold War. One could argue that they're in a much stronger economic position this time around and more importantly, they have control over Europe's oil. We have to remember though, that the Russians are always keen to play their nuclear power card, which significantly complicates things.

Having said that though, I feel that and putting a degree of trust in my country's intelligence that if Andrei Lugovoi really is responsible then he should be charged without a shadow of a doubt. You cannot do such things on British sovereign soil and we will never tolerate it. Two-hundred years ago the Soviets could expect some good old gunboat diplomacy.
 
I fully understand that Russia is capable of putting immense pressure on us, especially from an oil/fuel prospective.

However as Nix says, this is British overign soil and we cannot and must not accept such reckless behaviour by someone who obviously still has connections with the Russian government. This is far more than some rogue criminal.

At this moment in time expelling the diplomats is a measured response but we must push and ensure this is followed up by further suitable responses each becoming more serious until Russia respond flavourably.
 
I think it is worrying how Russia has been behaving in recent years. Relations between Russia and the West must be at a post cold war low. If things continue to worsen, we could have another cold war on our hands, or worse. Russia knows the power it wields with its control of gas and oil, and it seems to be emboldening it.
 
dirtydog said:
I think it is worrying how Russia has been behaving in recent years. Relations between Russia and the West must be at a post cold war low. If things continue to worsen, we could have another cold war on our hands, or worse. Russia knows the power it wields with its control of gas and oil, and it seems to be emboldening it.

I sense that they've got an itch for authority again. Worryingly, this is where most major wars seem to stem from. I think it is comparable to when Britain lost the Empire; we were lost and in need of an identity as a world player. Russia is now hypothetically in the same position and yearning to reassert itself. The question is; how far is it able or even, willing to do so?
 
Nix said:
I sense that they've got an itch for authority again. Worryingly, this is where most major wars seem to stem from. I think it is comparable to when Britain lost the Empire; we were lost and in need of an identity as a world player. Russia is now hypothetically in the same position and yearning to reassert itself. The question is; how far is it able or even, willing to do so?
Personally, I am nervous, put it that way :)
 
A very gutsy move by David Miliband and the Foreign Office and a proportionate move as well. Russia is no longer the military power it once was and during the economic spiral of the 1990s they lost a lot of clout in the world. Vladimir Putin is so popular in Russia because he uses Russia's position as a huge supplier of energy to his advantage so I hope this incident will encourage him to think twice before flexing muscle.
 
I'm not 100% on this issue, I don't have enough information to make a properly balanced judgement if it was proportionate or not because it depends on at least two major ifs.

'If' the Russia government did have a hand in Mr Litvinenko's poisoning then it is a good response because it shows displeasure where a more ordinary form of diplomacy has failed (I'd assume). This would make it a strong move but stopping short of anything that could/should permanantly sour relations.

However 'if' Russia either didn't have anything to do with the poisoning or we have not provided enough evidence of Andrei Lugovoi's guilt then we are pushing into a bit of a dodgy area. Although you could still argue that Russia should have acceded to the extradition request 'if' we have a mutual extradition agreement.

The oil issue is another complication (although morally it perhaps shouldn't be) because Putin has previously used their vast supplies of a natural oil and gas as a political bludgeon.
 
Very good :), it's a bold statement from the UK and is what is needed. It's a murder inquiry on our soil. Cold war please that's not going to happen.
 
dirtydog said:
Why so sure?


it's a diffrent time a diffrent world.

We might have an arms race with the star wars project. But it wont be like the cold war it'll be under the cover.
Here's are new shield, then Russia a week later will go here's are new missile that can't be detected by the fore mentioned shield.
 
NathanE said:
Don't forget our military training exercise back in May when a Russian plane came along to observe before being shooed away by two scrambled Tornadoes...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/6641999.stm

Relevance though?

This used to happen on almost daily basis, the Russians testing out northern air defence response times.

They knew the NATO exercises were on, and sent an old hunk of junk to take a peak.

It was not an aggressive act.

However, the increased rhetoric with some pretty dark tones are concerning.

Not to mention the suspension of the CFE. Itself not that much of an issue, since both sides appear to stall... its the escalation of numerous issues with Russia that are concerning.

This would be a serious matter if it was Washington/Moscow, not London/Moscow.
 
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dirtydog said:
Personally, I am nervous, put it that way :)
It seems a pointless thing to worry about, given that we are in possession of so little of the relevant information and couldn't do anything about it even if we were. Any speculation about the Litvinenko affair that's not from those in the know will be, for all intents and purposes, baseless.
 
I have a guest speaker tonight on this investigation - who was supposedly involved in the case. He's coming from Porton Down to speak with us, should be fairly interesting! I'll see if I can record it.
 
We need to try to end our reliance on Russian energy in the long term and in the short-medium term secure contracts for Russian energy as a European economic block Imo.
 
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