Alfa Romeo 156 Selespeed......

Chris1712 · 29 Apr 2006 at 17:48

Hmm, now i know this is ridiculous, but i've just found that the 2.0TS selespeed is kinda in my budget. Can pick them up around 3000, and insurance admittedly is ridiculous. But gosh i love the looks, interior and being an F1 driver.

Quickly convince me otherwise with thier running costs!

Lashout_UK · 29 Apr 2006 at 17:50

Family member test drove the Selespeed.

It was useless. It could neither work well as an autobox, or as a manual. I guess if you took some time and learnt precisely how to time your shifts with it, then it might be acceptable. Just got in the way otherwise.

However, this isn't first hand (well, I was sitting next to them) so if anyones got any other opinions

JollyGreen · 29 Apr 2006 at 18:05

Get a Manual, I love my 156 Manual

The selespeeds also have a tendency to explode horribly I hear.

[TW]Fox · 29 Apr 2006 at 18:14

A Standard 156 is not very good - A Selespeed is even worse becuase it takes the 75% chance of the car costing you a fortune to fix bits on to a 95% chance.

Avoid cheap Alfa's.

Only buy an Alfa if you buy a nearly new one with a warantty and a friendly dealer

GSXRMovistar · 30 Apr 2006 at 20:28

[TW]Fox said:
A Standard 156 is not very good - A Selespeed is even worse becuase it takes the 75% chance of the car costing you a fortune to fix bits on to a 95% chance.

Avoid cheap Alfa's.

Only buy an Alfa if you buy a nearly new one with a warantty and a friendly dealer

Sorry but thats rubbish, from my own experience I owned a secondhand Alfa 156 Selespeed for just under two years and never had any issues/problems with it.

Not only that but due to owning one I also used to read various Alfa related forums and the majority of those that posted on them also had no problems.

Hey but nothing like a bit of generalising, oh did I mention that Mondeos are incredibly boring cars.

BIGWEB · 30 Apr 2006 at 20:52

[TW]Fox said:
A Standard 156 is not very good - A Selespeed is even worse becuase it takes the 75% chance of the car costing you a fortune to fix bits on to a 95% chance.

Avoid cheap Alfa's.

Only buy an Alfa if you buy a nearly new one with a warantty and a friendly dealer

I dont mean to be rude but Alfa 156's are crazy value and I would much rather drive a 156 than a similarly priced mondeo\vectra\etc. If the cam belt is done every 36k and you take care of your car like you should, they are as reliable as mondeo's etc. They arent even that expensive to fix if you stay away from main dealers. IMO they handle better than a mondeo, look better and are quicker like for like. The scare stories keep the prices down.

That being said I'm not to well versed on the selespeed and would much rather have a manual.

JollyGreen · 30 Apr 2006 at 21:21

BIGWEB said:
If the cam belt is done every 36k and you take care of your car like you should,

And you make sure you clean the bonnet catch every 2 years or so

Sagalout · 30 Apr 2006 at 21:26

GSXRMovistar said:
Sorry but thats rubbish, from my own experience I owned a secondhand Alfa 156 Selespeed for just under two years and never had any issues/problems with it.

Not only that but due to owning one I also used to read various Alfa related forums and the majority of those that posted on them also had no problems.

Hey but nothing like a bit of generalising, oh did I mention that Mondeos are incredibly boring cars.

Yeah I agree, I think its generally accepted that the 156 onwards has vastly improved build quality and reliability.

Will · 30 Apr 2006 at 21:28

[TW]Fox said:
A Standard 156 is not very good - A Selespeed is even worse becuase it takes the 75% chance of the car costing you a fortune to fix bits on to a 95% chance.

I'm not going to defend the Selepseed but please tell me - how is the 156 'not very good'? Reliability and (subjective) aesthetics aside, I was under the impression that the 156 was actually really rather good to drive, and its interior puts competitors such as the Mondeo, Vectra or even Passat to shame when it comes to being a nice place to sit IMHO - its design has far more flair and character.

Chris1712 · 30 Apr 2006 at 21:34

It's only really come up because i just happened to be browsing a local private dealers forecourt, and noticed it. Remembered how fabulous they look, then sat in it and LOVED the interior, felt brilliant. Thought i'd cheekily ask the price, £2495!?

Jeebus, thats sat in my budget. And my what a car to have at 18.... If insurance was the same as a ghia x, i would probably go for it.

[TW]Fox · 30 Apr 2006 at 21:57

They are fragile cars - I mean, a cambelt interval every 36k? Thats apalling, whats the belt made of, cheese?

I'm pleased yours didn't break in 2 years GSXRMovistar but that's hardly proof none of them ever do, is it? The 156 doesn't have a completely made up reputation for being a mechanical liability - it *is* a mechanical liability.

FIAT/Alfa joint worst for breakdowns attended by German ADAC during 2001. 9th from Bottom of 100 models for reliability in Auto Express 2002 survey. 18th from Bottom in 144 car 2002 JD Power / What Car? Customer Satisfaction Survey of V and W reg cars. Alfa Romeo had joint highest average cost in warranty claims for cars up to 10 years old in 2002 Warranty Direct index Joint fourth bottom in 2002 Which reliability survey of cars up to 2 years old; 74 cars surveyed. Alfa Romeo 2nd least reliable of 31 makes of car in 2002 'Which?' reliability survey cars 2000 - 2002; 3rd least reliable cars 1997 - 1999.Alfa Romeo had fourth highest warranty repair costs in 2003 Warranty Direct Reliability index (index 155.10 v/s lowest 31.93). 98-2000 average for breakdowns and faults and poor for problems; 2001-2003 average for breakdowns and poor for problems and faults in 2003 Which survey. 7th from bottom out of 137 models in 2003 Top Gear survey. 156 8th bottom model and Alfa Romeo bottom marque in 2004 JD Power Customer Satisfaction Survey. Alfa Romeo 5th bottom of Reliability Index for 2004 combining average cost of repair of £392.88 with high 39.55 failures per 100 Warranty Direct policies. Link:- www.reliabilityindex.co.uk Came 16th from bottom in 2005 JD Power/What Car Survey of 23,000 cars reg Sep 2002 to Aug 2003 with satisfaction score of 74.7%

That's a shocking result for a car you claim is reliable.

Sorry - even most die hard Alfa enthusiasts will admit they ARE a reliability NIGHTMARE but most can justify the hassle and cost becuase they are great to drive, apparently..

Third Opinion · 30 Apr 2006 at 23:41

[TW]Fox said:
They are fragile cars - I mean, a cambelt interval every 36k? Thats apalling, whats the belt made of, cheese

Cambelt is changed at 72k not 36k. It needs to be checked and tensioned at 36k and replaced if necessary. This is where the problems arose, dealers often neglected to do this hence the high failure rate, a bit like the Pug engine. Please remember the engine is getting on now being a 18 year old design and has been showing its age for a few years now. However its power output is still well up there and maintain both low emisions and good economy.

To repace the cambelt costs about £700 with new tensioners and a service. Selespeed needs to be overhauled at 90-100k if it gets that far. Walk away from anything without service history or if it has previously broken a belt. Mine like many others has broken a belt and needed a complete rebuild costing 2k about 18 months later.

Parts are pricey with a set of plugs costing £200 from the dealer and about £54 online. They are very usable day to day but I won't try to fool you they are the most reliable cars. Interiors are ok and electrics generally sound nowadays. Paint is thin and lack of side protection makes the cars susceptable to damage caused by careless 4wd owners.

On the plus side they are very good value for money and you will get a decent for less than a Vectra or Mondeo of the same year will cost you.

dilated · 1 May 2006 at 00:19

its true, buy an alfa and it will break down all the time costing thousands to repair evertime :rolleyes:

they may not have the reliability of say a honda or a mazda but they are not nails. these surveys can be taken with a pinch of salt, i have seen league tables showing range rovers, audis, sabbs and bmws to figure bady in terms of breakdowns and high service / repair costs.

because of their reputation (dating back to the 70s) you get buy a newer higher spec car for the same money you could waste on an older euro box.

Chris1712 · 1 May 2006 at 00:28

Third Opinion said:
To repace the cambelt costs about £700 with new tensioners and a service.

Jeebus.

Unfortunately, all this isn't putting me off as yet. I think i may well be leaving my plan of getting rid of my 306 for a mondeo/focus. Leaning towards gettin ghte injectors overhauled and plugs sorted, running it to the ground over summer and saving more on buying a 156, or something else that takes my fancy between now and then.

Looking around, i notice theres a 1.6 version. I know this will no doubt feel a bit gutless (although im coming from a 306 dturbo so not much of a change!), but does anyone have any experience with these engines. What mileage would you expect out of a properly maintained one?

GT3 · 1 May 2006 at 00:32

[TW]Fox said:
Thats apalling, whats the belt made of, cheese?

Made by goodyear?

[TW]Fox · 1 May 2006 at 00:35

dilated said:
its true, buy an alfa and it will break down all the time costing thousands to repair evertime

Even if it doesnt break down, £700 every 36k miles for a cambelt? Insane.

they may not have the reliability of say a honda or a mazda but they are not nails. these surveys can be taken with a pinch of salt, i have seen league tables showing range rovers, audis, sabbs and bmws to figure bady in terms of breakdowns and high service / repair costs.

Surveys, I agree in part. They can be misleading.

Warrantydirects reliabilityindex, however, is pretty damn useful - this is not a survey, it is not opinion, it is sheer facts - it's how much they have to pay out, and how often they pay out, for each car.

And nobody is saying BMW's etc are reliable - far from it. They also break and they also cost a fortune to fix but when you are spending thousands on one you budget for this.

If you've only got £2.5k to spend on a car it's unlikely (although not impossible) that you are able to budget for £1000 cambelt changes and constant faliures on the rest of the car.

[TW]Fox · 1 May 2006 at 00:37

Third Opinion said:
Cambelt is changed at 72k not 36k. It needs to be checked and tensioned at 36k and replaced if necessary.

*cough*

Timing belts and tensioners need changing way before scheduled 72k miles. See TSB to change them at 36k

Alfa issued a TSB... so clearly it's an issue.

On the plus side they are very good value for money and you will get a decent for less than a Vectra or Mondeo of the same year will cost you.

A decent, reliable, no problems, no hassle 2.0 Mondeo with all the toys on a 99 plate is plentiful for under £2k. Whereas the only Alfa 156's for under £2k are the uncared for liabilities (Rather than the cared for liabilities, lol).

I find it very hard to recommend a 156 to anyone on a budget - you need vast amounts of spare cash laying around. This not anti-Alfa, it's being realistic - I have exactly the same opinion on BMW 5 Series.

The fact they are cheap to buy is due mostly to the fact they are far from cheap to keep going.

F355 · 1 May 2006 at 00:46

Chris1712 said:
Jeebus.

Unfortunately, all this isn't putting me off as yet. I think i may well be leaving my plan of getting rid of my 306 for a mondeo/focus. Leaning towards gettin ghte injectors overhauled and plugs sorted, running it to the ground over summer and saving more on buying a 156, or something else that takes my fancy between now and then.

Looking around, i notice theres a 1.6 version. I know this will no doubt feel a bit gutless (although im coming from a 306 dturbo so not much of a change!), but does anyone have any experience with these engines. What mileage would you expect out of a properly maintained one?

£700 for the cambelt service is a bit OTT. You can get it done for £300 with genuine parts if you look around.

The 1.6 in the 156 is exactly the same as the 2.0 apart from the capacity (ofcourse) and the 2.0 has balance shafts (it needs them being a bigger engine). The 1.6 generates 120bhp which is pretty good for a 1.6! However the 2.0 is the one to go for if insurance isn't too much more expensive.

Don't listen to Fox. He has never had any experience of an Alfa Romeo and doesn't understand them. They are very reliable BUT they need a lot of TLC. For example you should really change the cambelt at 36k or 3yr because the tentioners have a tendancy to break up causing the belt to slip and eventually engine damage. Mondeos have this same problem.

Other than cambelts you need to check the oil regularly because they are known to burn a bit of oil. Its nothing to worry about if you don't let the engine go below MIN. If you do you can be looking £3k+ on an engine rebuild.

I would stay away from the Selespeed. Its not that good, not very reliable and costs a lot to replace. Stick with the manual.

No-One · 1 May 2006 at 01:15

My dad has a 156 1.6 T-Spark. Having seen what it's like, I wouldn't have one. Here's a quick summary of the main things.

1. The first week he had it, he went to the petrol station to fill up. He pulled the level for the fuel cap release and got out. When he got to the cap he realised that not only had it opened but it had snapped clean off under nothing more than its own weight and was laying on the floor.

2. The boot mechanism jammed shut. It operates from the remote of a lever in the car. Neither worked and for some reason there's no handle or lock on the boot itself.

3. Squeeking wheel when turning right. Took 4 visits to the dealer to sort this. It's recently started doing it when turning left now.

4. For some reason it always sounds like a diesel when it's cold.

There's no feeling of quality to it. Everything rattles and creaks. Things like the bonet is supported by adhesive foam blocks to stop it rattling.

[TW]Fox · 1 May 2006 at 01:16

F355 said:
Don't listen to Fox. He has never had any experience of an Alfa Romeo and doesn't understand them. They are very reliable

You had to rebuild the engine on yours!

BUT they need a lot of TLC. For example you should really change the cambelt at 36k or 3yr because the tentioners have a tendancy to break up causing the belt to slip and eventually engine damage. Mondeos have this same problem.

The Silvertop Zetec used until early 1998 has this issue if you don't replace the tensioner at the same time as the belt - HOWEVER the change interval is 80,000 miles or 5 years - and you don't get tensioner breakup before then. The problem was fixed with the revised Blacktop Zetec which has a change interval of 10 years or 100,000 miles.

Going by the 156 owners prices over 140,000 miles you'd spend £120 changing cambelts on a Mondeo and £2100 with the Alfa, and there are people here arguing they dont cost a fortune to run? Don't be daft.

If you've got thousands to spend on a car, you love the way the 156 looks and you love the history of an Alfa, then by all means spend a few k less on the car, leave a surplus in the bank to maintain it and enjoy owning it.

But a 156 on a budget? You'd have to be insane.

You CAN buy a 156 if you've got a £2500 budget but it'll kill you running and its just a stupid idea. And yet again to prove I am simply being realistic not anti-Alfa Romeo, it's exactly the same as spending £2500 on an E39 5 Series - my favourite car - you CAN buy one, but it'll kill you trying to run the damn thing when you've not got a huge pile to spend.