AMD Confirms GCN Cards Don’t Feature Full DirectX 12 Support – Feature Level 11_1 on GCN 1.0, Featur

[Gregster]

I know you have a preference for Nvidia but I really don't think you have a personal vendetta against AMD like some seem to believe!

A sensible post!!! We will have none of that here. This is a local forum for local people

But yer, I love some good old fashioned wind ups and some good old fashioned banter but I guess when you are typing on a keyboard, that gets lost without seeing facial expressions (and I do lots of that).

Ohhh and I will be at I55 with the MLG crew and people are welcome to come and have a chat with me and find out that I am actually a real **** and old and crap at games

 

[Gregster]

Come on now Marie, I loved TressFX in Tomb Raider and I think HairWorks looks great in TW3. If I did have a gripe about TressFX, it is the lack of seeing it in other games. AMD did a fantastic job with it but then didn't push it any further, so that was a little disappointing.

As for the VRAM debates, I can't say I have really paid any attention to that.

Mantle was great but it was proprietary and we have been over that many times. A shame really, as again I thought it was a good thing to have and with the imminent release of Windows 10 and DX12, we will have a API that works for both (so long as you have a DX12 compliant card), so that is pretty much the future for both vendors.

GameWorks is awesome and from Batman Arkham Origins to AC:U and to TW3, I really like the tech.

 

[Gregster]

Lets be fair Greg everything you can currently buy is rubbish. 2160p/60hz/Ultra/12gb on 1 single chip is where it needs to be. Technology should be there and be cheap but we're being slowly milked instead with sub par performing gimped workstation cards for a grand.

Not sure what that has to do with DX12 but whilst you are right, I don't think we are even close to half that. UHD at full ultra on say "GTA V" will probs be doable in 5 years time but by then, graphics will have moved on and we will be back to square one. When there is a big breakthrough in chip design (Germanium after silicon perhaps?), then it should be catching up but as the future of 14/16nm gets closer and then 10nm and after that, I just see more die issues as seen with 20nm) and less gains from both AMD and NVidia.

 

[Gregster]

I dont think you'll get a better answe. AMD will say the same, NV will say anything below 12.1 will give you cancer, took your money from your account, and burn down your house.

You got the kind of humour I like

It is pretty much much of a muchness really and the thread was gold to me to show all those who said this and that about GCN has the best DX12 support blah blah and NVidia are well behind what is actually what. Call me baiting trolling or whatever but that wasn't the intention and was clearing up some fallacies that were being posted.

Probs by the time that DX12 is running, I would have moved on as well from my current GPUs but it does once and for all clear up that what I said about AMD not being able to do ROVs or Conservative Rasterization and these are 2 important parts of DX12.

I am still very curious to know if the 390 series including Fiji will support DX12 though and I am sure it will all come clear at E3 like Shankly said.

 

[Gregster]

Agree. While Greg has his best intentions, others use it as a platform to bitch at each other so overall threads like this inevitably get trashed from the get go.

Not going to lie but seeing the article did make me smile and not from a one is better than the other perspective but more to do with all the people who have been saying GCN can do this and that and NVidia can't. I seriously don't care what is what but I have seen some seriously narky comments in various threads (linked earlier) and some complete FUD. I am all up for rumours mind but too many were posting as fact and then jumping on others, so yer, my face was a little like this whilst typing this thread.

Spoiler

I don't want to see anyone miss out though and hopefully by the time DX12 is upon us, we are all enjoying it and arguing over 1 fps

 

[Gregster]

Gregster i just watched one of your videos, and you sound like a good bloke i imagined a totally different voice

Thanks bud

I am constantly on the wind up at work and play, so it does tend to come out now and then on the forums but when I am in TS with the midlifegamers guys, the last thing I want is someone having issues and I don't care what GPU they use, just so long as we all have fun. Playing PCars earlier, in 2 of the races, I got a freeze of around a second and happened on a corner, so ended up in the long grass/gravel and I was getting ripped it was the NVidia drivers but it is all banter

 

[Gregster]

I've always thought this... how do you manage to irk so many people on these forums?

Years of practice

 

[Gregster]

Hilarious... a thread about feature levels of an API that hasnt even been released yet, is probably not even final and arguing over who supports what of said non existant as of yet API.

The level of fail in this thread has reached a new high or should i saw all time low.

Seriously folks just lock this thread and move on, discuss it when it arrives, infact discuss it once the first few DX12 games have arrived.

Hmmm, a couple of the threads I read back on regarding DX12, Si you have been quite vocal in. You wasn't asking for those to be locked and as Robert has confirmed that GCN doesn't support DX12_1, it seems this article is indeed correct and factual, unlike some of the other threads

Not a dig btw.

 

[Gregster]

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2433809

LMAO, I think you are in the wrong forum. But then again, you ahve been quite vocal lately and been caught out several times, so no wonder you want me dealt with. Man up a bit, it isn't personal.

 

[Gregster]

Does anyone else get the feeling that AMD are deflecting the need for full DX12 support because the upcoming cards won't have full support either?

I do hope I am wrong on that but seems they are going out of their way to put the extra features that AMD can't do as not needed.

 

[Gregster]

Nope

Do you think the newer 390X and upwards cards will have full support?

 

[Gregster]

Do you have evidence that 12_1 will offer better performance and/or visual compared to 12_0? Do you have evidence that GCN is going to perform worse than Maxwell 2? Do you know of any engine/game that will support 12_1?

So far all I see is arguing without anyone explaining the advantage of 12_1 over 12_0 or actually posting any benchmarks.

For all we know 12_1 could be 11.2 all over again with zero support in games. I would suggest to stop arguing over something most people here probably don't understand and see how AMD is going to perform when actual DX12 games come out.

It was a simple question really and something I would like to know before buying. But as you asked, I will respond to what AMD currently can't do:

Conservative Rasterization.

Conservative rasterization is essentially a more accurate but performance intensive solution to figuring out whether a polygon covers part of a pixel. Instead of doing a quick and simple test to see if the center of the pixel is bounded by the lines of the polygon, conservative rasterization checks whether the pixel covers the polygon by testing it against the corners of the pixel. This means that conservative rasterization will catch cases where a polygon was too small to cover the center of a pixel, which results in a more accurate outcome, be it better identifying pixels a polygon resides in, or finding polygons too small to cover the center of any pixel at all. This in turn being where the “conservative” aspect of the name comes from, as a rasterizer would be conservative by including every pixel touched by a triangle as opposed to just the pixels where the tringle covers the center point.

Rasterizer ordered views.

First and foremost of the new features is Rasterizer Ordered Views (ROVs). As hinted at by the name, ROVs is focused on giving the developer control over the order that elements are rasterized in a scene, so that elements are drawn in the correct order. This feature specifically applies to Unordered Access Views (UAVs) being generated by pixel shaders, which buy their very definition are initially unordered. ROVs offers an alternative to UAV's unordered nature, which would result in elements being rasterized simply in the order they were finished. For most rendering tasks unordered rasterization is fine (deeper elements would be occluded anyhow), but for a certain category of tasks having the ability to efficiently control the access order to a UAV is important to correctly render a scene quickly.



The textbook use case for ROVs is Order Independent Transparency, which allows for elements to be rendered in any order and still blended together correctly in the final result. OIT is not new – Direct3D 11 gave the API enough flexibility to accomplish this task – however these earlier OIT implementations would be very slow due to sorting, restricting their usefulness outside of CAD/CAM. The ROV implementation however could accomplish the same task much more quickly by getting the order correct from the start, as opposed to having to sort results after the fact.

Along these lines, since OIT is just a specialized case of a pixel blending operation, ROVs will also be usable for other tasks that require controlled pixel blending, including certain cases of anti-aliasing.

So with that knowledge of the 2 things that AMD can't do, you tell me if they are important or not.

 

[Gregster]

Nvidia cant do them either on older hardware you tell me if they are important then.

AMD full support Dx12.
Nvidia well they havent said much....wonder why?
have old Nvidia card feel shafted?

You are missing the point. So far, the only fully supported DX12 GPUs are Maxwell V2 (which I own). AMD do not have a single GPU the fully supports DX12 and are putting out loads of PR spin about how these things that NVida can do are not needed, so hence I asked if anyone else thinks that AMD's 390x and newer cards will also be lacking full DX12 support.

I personally would hate to buy a brand new released card in a couple of weeks and then find out I am missing out on this and that.

 

[Gregster]

Rather than speculate why not just wait and see? 8 more days to go.

No speculation is boring though and most of the threads here are based on speculation and some educated guesses.

 

[Gregster]

All of those tier graphs floating about were made up by guesswork. Maxwell V2 is fully DX12 capable and the only current cards that are.

 

[Gregster]

I am lost for words

 

[Gregster]

Very impressed with that

 

[Gregster]

Rumors suggest that The Witcher 3 and GTA V will get some DX12 loving, so hopefully that stands true.