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AMD demonstrates Ryzen 9 5900X prototype with 3D V-Cache stack chiplet design

Discussion in 'CPUs' started by RavenXXX2, 1 Jun 2021.

  1. Twinz

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 20 Aug 2019

    Posts: 1,706

    Location: SW Florida

    A better CPU helps when it's the CPU holding back performance. GPU's are usually the limiting factor at 4k with current high-end CPU's so I wouldn't expect much uplift from an improved CPU at 4k. (At least not with current gen GPU's)
     
  2. KompuKare

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 31 Dec 2010

    Posts: 1,171

    To show the best uplift they really should have used a 3090 because compared to the 6900 , Nvidia's drivers are more CPU dependent to keep it fed.

    If there are any times where a CPU holds back a GPU at 4K it would mostly show in improved minimums. Pity most reviewers mostly concentrate on average FPS. TPU for instance only show minimums on some CPU reviews.
     
  3. welshrat

    Gangster

    Joined: 31 Dec 2011

    Posts: 489

    Well this is ideal. will jump on the 5900 with v cache equivalent to replace my 3700x sometime next year. Will give me a good few years with my am4 whilst I wait for am5 to mature.
     
  4. Troezar

    Mobster

    Joined: 6 Aug 2009

    Posts: 4,939

    Thinking of something similar, need a GPU first, that might be more difficult!
     
  5. Aretak

    Mobster

    Joined: 26 May 2014

    Posts: 2,622

    The game being shown is Gears of War 5. It should really go without saying that you'll only see an uplift in CPU-bound scenarios though. A CPU upgrade doesn't magically make your GPU faster. More faster is always more betterer though. There are plenty of (often) CPU-bound games out there. Far Cry 6 just released and is one. Far Cry 5 was actually one of AMD's examples shown as having one of the biggest gains from the extra cache.
     
  6. welshrat

    Gangster

    Joined: 31 Dec 2011

    Posts: 489

    Yeah the 6800 I bought in Feb for £799 is now looking like a bargain all things considered (vega 56 sold for just under £400), This VCache CPU should allow me one more GPU on the AM4 platform assuming prices get reasonable come the end of 2022.
     
  7. alec

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 11 Dec 2016

    Posts: 1,412

    Location: Oxford

    All these game CPU IPC measurements only make sense in non-GPU limited situations. There is almost nothing a CPU can improve to add FPS when GPU is holding everything back
    I think it is safe to trust their numbers on uplift from Vcache.
    Games always loved large cache and if they say there is no major added latency, it is a pure win.
     
  8. jigger

    Capodecina

    Joined: 28 May 2007

    Posts: 15,634

    I’m hoping graphics prices come down once Intel enters the market and the rerelease RTX 2060 to mop up more mining sales.
     
  9. Purgatory

    Soldato

    Joined: 7 Dec 2010

    Posts: 5,412

    Location: Leeds

    Yes I understand with games that most are gpu bound at 1440p (in some games) and up I am curious what the real world IPC would be on these and single thread performance, wondering if we will actually see a real gain in that. Alot of new games at resolution I use are GPU bound anyways, hoping it will show some real world difference in FS2020 as one of the games and some work related apps, but have a strange feeling we will get a slight bump if any on some apps and that will really make me decide if to update to it or not as said most games will be GPU bound at resolutions I use and AM5 I will probably wait till the second gen cpus come out for that as I don't want to be a beta tester again for new platforms and really got tired of that in the past and DDR5 well we will have to wait and see if the first set of released sticks really make a difference over DDR4 as we have seen in the past there normally isn't a huge bump changing from last gen DDR to first Gen DDR on a new spec.

    Also pricing is going to be silly on any motherboard that uses PCIE 5 on all the slots as we are seeing the new Intel platform is really only giving one slot on PCIE 5 and one NVME (I think one NVME PCIE 5 but that may not be right and maybe PCIE 4 still). I would want the whole motherboard to be fully PCIE 5 not just one slot and one NVME slot and for sure these boards will be really expensive when they appear with full PCIE 5 slots and full NVME slots at PCIE 5 and then the costs of DDR5 to add.

     
    Last edited: 22 Oct 2021
  10. g67575

    Mobster

    Joined: 30 Jun 2019

    Posts: 2,764

    *Moved from other thread*

    AMD has new AM4 based CPUs with extra L3 Cache (which makes use of 3D chiplet technology) planned. According to AMD, the additional cache amounts to an extra 15% performance boost, vs current Zen 3 CPUs.

    "There will a Ryzen product in 2022 that goes into socket AM4 with 3D V-Cache" - AMD spokesman.

    Link here:
    https://youtu.be/yE9PsKWYYXA?t=514

    If it can keep up with Alder Lake's single core performance, and presumably has between 12-16 (large) CPU cores, I think this could give Intel a run for their money. Since Alder Lake CPUs won't be cheap, I don't expect these 3D V-Cache CPUs will be either. I assume the AM4 platform will limit these CPUs to DDR4 RAM.

    Later on in 2022, we will likely see Rembrandt APUs, which I suspect will be similar to current Zen 3 APUs, but with RDNA 2 graphics, and maybe improved L3 cache.
     
    Last edited: 15 Oct 2021
  11. cliffy

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 14 Nov 2005

    Posts: 1,149

    AM5 is also next year, around Q3
     
  12. g67575

    Mobster

    Joined: 30 Jun 2019

    Posts: 2,764

    Yup. Probably end of 2022. But the more relevant question for AMD right now is, how do they compete with Intel's Alder Lake?
     
  13. Drollic

    Mobster

    Joined: 24 Feb 2013

    Posts: 3,785

    Location: East Midlands

    Unnoticed? There's a 15 page thread on it.
     
  14. g67575

    Mobster

    Joined: 30 Jun 2019

    Posts: 2,764

    EDIT - Ok, seen it now...
     
    Last edited: 14 Oct 2021
  15. jigger

    Capodecina

    Joined: 28 May 2007

    Posts: 15,634

    The most relevant question is how close can Alderlake get to current Ryzen 5000 and under what scenario.

    Intel are playing catch up.
     
  16. Journey

    Capodecina

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 10,386

    Location: West Midlands

    Mods - delete this thread it merge it.
     
  17. g67575

    Mobster

    Joined: 30 Jun 2019

    Posts: 2,764

    Nah, it's pretty clear that Alder Lake will beat current Zen 3 CPUs, if the IPC rumours are correct. I don't think Intel will be 2 generations behind...
     
  18. g67575

    Mobster

    Joined: 30 Jun 2019

    Posts: 2,764

    Lol, a lot of people go about this the wrong way. Upgrade the graphics card if your GPU utilization is maxed out, its a really simple upgrade (assuming you have a sufficient power supply). Then, upgrade the CPU if your CPU utilization is near 100%...
     
  19. jigger

    Capodecina

    Joined: 28 May 2007

    Posts: 15,634

    It’s really not. Alderlake is somewhat of a series of half fixes, pulling together parts that have previously struggled and failed as stand alone products.

    The Gracemont Atom cores will have poor IPC but better power efficiency than Rocket lake.
    The Golden Cove cores will be fast in 4 thread workload but very power hungry in multithread. Orchestrating the Gracemont and Golden Cove clusters will be a huge challenge. Leveraging the full processing power of the whole chip will be impossible.
     
  20. Joxeon

    Soldato

    Joined: 15 Oct 2019

    Posts: 7,494

    Location: Uk

    Isn't AMD is planning a big little design with Zen 5 though so it can't be that bad?.