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AMD demonstrates Ryzen 9 5900X prototype with 3D V-Cache stack chiplet design

Discussion in 'CPUs' started by RavenXXX2, 1 Jun 2021.

  1. jigger

    Capodecina

    Joined: 28 May 2007

    Posts: 15,625

    Stock is non existent. Price is irrelevant.
     
  2. jigger

    Capodecina

    Joined: 28 May 2007

    Posts: 15,625

    Nvidia seem to be over manufacturing mobile and crypto mining products and under manufacturing desktop graphics cards.
     
  3. LePhuronn

    Soldato

    Joined: 26 Sep 2010

    Posts: 6,473

    Location: Stoke-on-Trent

    That's where the money is. Why bother making a truck load of 3080 cards when you can just offload pallets of GA102 dies directly to miners?
     
  4. McGraw

    Mobster

    Joined: 16 Jan 2006

    Posts: 2,898

    Because you're alienating the market that got you where you are today and if mining dies, you've lost that market too.

    I'd happily see nvidia go under if I knew they were actively stifling the PC gaming market
     
  5. LePhuronn

    Soldato

    Joined: 26 Sep 2010

    Posts: 6,473

    Location: Stoke-on-Trent

    Uncle Leather Jacket has no fudges to give. Desktop gaming is niche chump change, he's all about datacentre and AI now. And, let's be honest, so are AMD really.

    What, like the $175M worth of GPUs sold directly to miners end of last year, a good chunk of which were Ampere-based? Or the entire CMP product line for dedicated mining that diverts dies away from Geforce gaming cards? Or drip feeding GDDR6X supply to AIBs to slow their production and push street prices sky high, yet spinning the fairy tale that Ampere is really cheap because the Founders cards they refuse to make have a very low MSRP compared to Turing?
     
  6. Calin Banc

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 14 Aug 2009

    Posts: 1,342

    https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/...al-results-for-fourth-quarter-and-fiscal-2021

    I wouldn't say gaming is irrelevant. Is more than Data Center and Automotive combined.
     
  7. Joxeon

    Soldato

    Joined: 15 Oct 2019

    Posts: 7,469

    Location: Uk

  8. Calin Banc

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 14 Aug 2009

    Posts: 1,342

    It was their main income even before that.
     
  9. Distracted

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 30 Aug 2018

    Posts: 2,482

    Gaming is certainly largely driven by desktop GPU sales, however what proportion of that is miners is unknown.
    Gaming also includes revenue from geforce now and tegra sales that go into the switch.
    There are also the mobile parts as well, so Gaming revenue doesn't just describe the money Nvidia makes from sales to Desktop gamers. With that in mind it is difficult to know how much they value 'desktop gaming' specifically.

    However, sales of the GPUs for desktop use in one form or another are almost certainly the main source of revenue in the gaming portion of their revenue and Nvidia estimates mining to be only a fraction of that. Although that estimate could have been made with their investors in mind. Investors who are aware that if the mining bubble pops a decent source of revenue goes with it. If Nvidia downplays the percentage that that risk covers with conservative estimates then its better for them.


    So while we don't know the actual numbers for desktop gaming specifically, even accounting for everything written above, it is definitely not chump change and is (easily) arguably the largest earner for the company.

    At least that's my amatuer take from looking at their revenue year on year and how they divide and disclose it.
     
  10. LePhuronn

    Soldato

    Joined: 26 Sep 2010

    Posts: 6,473

    Location: Stoke-on-Trent

    This is the trick, isn't it. Nvidia will tally the sale of an Ampere GA die against Gaming, because an Ampere GA die is a gaming product. But that doesn't mean the GA sold is attached to a card used for playing games.

    This is how Nvidia spin the rhetoric of "we're all about gamers" when they blatantly aren't. Sales of their gaming products are up all these bazillions of percent, so Nvidia can say "look at how many gaming things we've sold!" but actual gamers are saying "Ampere came out a year ago and I still don't have my 3080". Nvidia's CMP cards will no doubt be included in their Gaming financials because they use G-named gaming dies, but every CMP card that is made is one less actual gaming card available. Pallets upon pallets of dies sold direct to miners, but they're G-named dies so it counts as "Gaming", despite never rendering a single frame of Battlefield 5.

    So I stand by my point, Nvidia do not see the actual PC gaming market has important, because they can get much more money selling their G-named dies for non-gaming tasks. The simple that the CMP mining line even exists, RTX 3080 pre-orders still haven't been fulfilled a year later and $175M of GPUs sold direct to miners clearly support this.

    And guess what? If GPU-based mining vanishes tomorrow, Nvidia's Gaming financials remain rock steady because all of those G-dies just end up in the hands of actual PC gamers. Nvidia still make them, Nvidia still sell them, Nvidia lose nothing.
     
  11. TrixP10

    Gangster

    Joined: 26 May 2017

    Posts: 231

  12. Zarax

    Gangster

    Joined: 3 May 2021

    Posts: 242

  13. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: 17 Mar 2012

    Posts: 39,017

    It is, people go on about Jim Keller as if he's the golden goose of CPU architectures, laying those eggs where ever he goes.

    Nope, the real hero is Mike Clark, the architect of AMD's very successful K5, K6, K7, K8, (Athlon and Phenom) and yes also the disastrous K10 designs (Bulldozer), and now 17H (Zen, Zen+ and Zen 2) and 19H (Zen 3) Core designs.

    Zen was 5 years in design. that's where it costs the Billions $
     
    Last edited: 26 Oct 2021
  14. LePhuronn

    Soldato

    Joined: 26 Sep 2010

    Posts: 6,473

    Location: Stoke-on-Trent

    Jim Keller is an ideas man. He's the guy who thinks "we can achieve this if we built that", assembles a team around him to thrash out the big picture stuff then moves on. The Mike Clarks of the world are the ones who actually realise these big thoughts as actual real-world designs.

    Sometimes you need a Jim to come along, blow people's minds with big, out-of-the-box ideas and foster in a new direction, but it's all just fluff without a Mike.
     
  15. McGraw

    Mobster

    Joined: 16 Jan 2006

    Posts: 2,898

    I'm a PC gamer. Couldn't care less about the non gaming gpu stuff. Based on what you state, they can burn.
     
  16. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: 17 Mar 2012

    Posts: 39,017

    Yeah, i agree, Lisa is pretty good at that too :)
     
  17. LePhuronn

    Soldato

    Joined: 26 Sep 2010

    Posts: 6,473

    Location: Stoke-on-Trent

    Her area of expertise is interconnects, apparently. I can't possibly see that being useful to AMD...

    ;)

    Also, what's the name of that engineer who fixed Vega overnight? She was a senior in the Zen team then Lisa moved her to Radeon, then suddenly Vega is actually OK.
     
  18. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: 17 Mar 2012

    Posts: 39,017

    lol....
     
  19. subbytna

    Capodecina

    Joined: 22 Oct 2008

    Posts: 10,295

    Location: Belfast


    Whoosh moment, you talking about Lisa herself? :(:o
     
  20. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: 17 Mar 2012

    Posts: 39,017

    Intel Q3 2021: $18.10 Billion (+5% YoY)
    Nvidia Q3 2021: $6.70 Billion (+43% YoY)
    AMD Q3 2021: $4.31 Billion (+54% YoY)

    Intel are pretty stagnant, Nvidia growth is impressive but they have been selling GPU's to crypto miners at hugely inflated prices.
    AMD have been growing their X86 market share, now at about 25% share and adding Automotive and Handheld Mobile to their portfolio, they have lost GPU marketshare from about 18% to 15% share.