AMD to launch 12nm Ryzen in February 2018

Doobedoo · 27 Sep 2017 at 22:43

Scougar said:
Assuming GF are talking about AMD's 14LPP process as comparison, then 10% uplift is pretty nice. Hopefully that translates to 4.4/4.5Ghz clocks potential when overclocking.

I wouldn't be expecting 4.4-4.5ghz to be honest, I think 4.3 tops is realistic just to keep pace with Coffee Lake. It should be a nice little boost until Zen2 turns up, especially for those that haven't brought Ryzen yet.

Might even be tempted with a clock bumped 1600 myself.

jigger · 27 Sep 2017 at 22:54

GAC said:
yes thats obvious but the chipset isnt the socket now is it. just look at intels shenanigans all we have been told is they will continue with AM4 up to 2020, no one has said your 350/370 mobo will work with newer cpu;s until 2020 unless iv missed something somewhere.

I think AMD would have to offer up something pretty special to convince people to drop a six month old motherboard. Id think its safe to say anything 8 core or less will work as long as the board can cover the chips power demands.

humbug · 27 Sep 2017 at 23:00

I don't think this is at all difficult to understand, if Zen+ was not compatible with X370 then they wouldn't have the same socket so that it fits, they would change the socket so that it didn't fit. That is what Intel do.

gavinh87 · 27 Sep 2017 at 23:07

humbug said:
I don't think this is at all difficult to understand, if Zen+ was not compatible with X370 then they wouldn't have the same socket so that it fits, they would change the socket so that it didn't fit. That is what Intel do.

Errm, coffee/kaby use the same socket yet require different chipsets. There is nothing stopping AMD doing this with Zen+ Especially if they have seen how much intel make from chipsets.
The X470 has me interested though, what more could it possibly bring?

jigger · 27 Sep 2017 at 23:13

Not sure require is the right word. Intel are trying to introduce Coffeemaker in a such a way as not to hurt X299 or Z270 while keeping costs down.

gavinh87 · 27 Sep 2017 at 23:20

jigger said:
Not sure require is the right word. Intel are trying to introduce Coffeemaker in a such a way as not to hurt X299 or Z270 while keeping costs down.

Well seeing as though it requires the end user to have a z370 board, I'd say it is the right word

They have already killed off the 7800x imo.

jigger · 27 Sep 2017 at 23:27

The only thing stopping Coffeemaker from being a drop in upgrade is Intel.

gavinh87 · 27 Sep 2017 at 23:30

jigger said:
The only thing stopping Coffeemaker from being a drop in upgrade is Intel.

There was speak of some of the lower boards not being able to support 6 cores but meh, its intel they don't need an excuse.

Panos · 27 Sep 2017 at 23:39

gavinh87 said:
Well seeing as though it requires the end user to have a z370 board, I'd say it is the right word
They have already killed off the 7800x imo.

Actually they killed quite a few on the X299 lineup
Why I say that. Benchmark showing the 8700K @ 4.5Ghz all core, hitting 9000+ CPU on Spy. A meager 12% overclock (5Ghz) with some high speed ram, it goes over 10,000-10500 score.
10,000 synthetic score, kills off not only the 7800X and the 7820X outright on everything not only gaming, and it would be even beating the 7900X on the majority of the games if not all coming
7900X is the only chip on the X299 lineup that made sense to buy over Ryzen 7, if someone didn't want the 7740X (i can see merit over 7700K on this) for gaming and general use.

However killed the X299 quad cores. Who's going to buy the 7640 or the 7740X, when their "counter parts" are at £140-£200 range, with half the motherboard price range?

And not going to speculate if 8700K clocks go 5.2/5.3 as per rumours and screenshots.

Closing if Ryzen 7 Zen+ can do 4.5, could be around the 10,000 mark also.

jigger · 27 Sep 2017 at 23:42

I thought you didn't care about every generation of chip requiring a new motherboard as long as it was marketed well.

triss · 27 Sep 2017 at 23:50

humbug said:
I don't think this is at all difficult to understand, if Zen+ was not compatible with X370 then they wouldn't have the same socket so that it fits, they would change the socket so that it didn't fit. That is what Intel do.

Isnt coffeelake same socket as the 6700 and 7700k and yet still need new chipsets?

I hope AMD do allow existing ryzen users to use current motherboards but with todays markets i dont know if they will.

jigger · 27 Sep 2017 at 23:54

triss said:
Isnt coffeelake same socket as the 6700 and 7700k and yet still need new chipsets?

I hope AMD do allow existing ryzen users to use current motherboards but with todays markets i dont know if they will.

Well AMDs slides say it's an AM4 chip and thats all we have. Unless Zen+ is a big overhaul of Ryzen then I think its safe to say the chips are AM4 compatable.

humbug · 28 Sep 2017 at 00:19

gavinh87 said:
Errm, coffee/kaby use the same socket yet require different chipsets. There is nothing stopping AMD doing this with Zen+ Especially if they have seen how much intel make from chipsets.
The X470 has me interested though, what more could it possibly bring?

They don't require a different chipset, they want to force you to buy a new motherboard with one of their chipsets on it.

At least now i know what GAC is worried about, don't be, AMD could never get away with that sort of shenanigans so it ain't happening.

AndreiD · 28 Sep 2017 at 00:46

Any leaks on X470 and B450? Or is AMD trying to leapfrog Intel on chipset marketing?
A few more PCI-E lanes from the chipset would help with I/O (I think X370 only has 8?), maybe Thunderbolt 3 since Intel opened up the spec?

Beren · 28 Sep 2017 at 01:37

That is awesome. Global Foundries direct quote is:
https://www.globalfoundries.com/new...-technology-for-high-performance-applications

The new 12LP technology provides as much as a 15 percent improvement in circuit density and more than a 10 percent improvement in performance over 16/14nm FinFET solutions on the market today.

If that 'More Than a 10 Percent' bit translates to 11-15% extra clock speed it will be really significant. There might be improvements in IPC as well which would magnify the uplift. The biggest weakness for Ryzen is on single/low thread tasks. An extra 10-20% there could be massive for them.

I get that the improvement in circuit density is generally a 'good thing' more CPU's per wafer should mean lower overall cost - or the ability to squeeze in some more cache or similar which could potentially help out with the IF issues...

But will the increase in density negatively impact thermals to the point that while we should theoretically (the weak ass Theory: current max turbo 4.0 * 11% (the more than 10% in a press release)) (Oh no, Double Brackets could I be becoming that other bracket happy dude?) see 4.5Ghz+ single core speeds mean that in reality we cannot achieve the same speed increases across the package?

AndreiD · 28 Sep 2017 at 02:06

I'm guesstimating that Zen+ will probably reach 4.4~4.5Ghz max, which would be pretty nice to be honest, it would close in some of the gap.

Scougar · 28 Sep 2017 at 02:29

Doobedoo said:
I wouldn't be expecting 4.4-4.5ghz to be honest, I think 4.3 tops is realistic just to keep pace with Coffee Lake. It should be a nice little boost until Zen2 turns up, especially for those that haven't brought Ryzen yet.

Might even be tempted with a clock bumped 1600 myself.

Don't worry, not expecting anything. Been to hype land and back. I am expecting pedestrian increases, but hopeful that they can pull out more at least on the top binned chips.

Beren · 28 Sep 2017 at 03:00

I don't even want to put this in graphics but...

Of course this also means a boost for Vega and possibly Polaris if they are going to pull the 500 series over onto the 12LP process as well. Lifting the 570, 580, 56 and 64 by 10%+ which might hopefully stop them getting stomped completely into the mud by Volta and give AMD time to get their next gen chip out and still have at least some graphics market share.

humbug · 28 Sep 2017 at 03:44

Vega needs a miracle to survive Volta.

Hotwired · 28 Sep 2017 at 07:24

humbug said:

I found it interesting to know that Vega 56 and Vega 64 will be sandwiched into the new imac pros which are a screen with a computer stuffed into the back. Alongside an 8, 10 or 18 core Xeon cpu, so a beefy workstation.

Looks like the insides will bear zero resemblance to a regular pc, a circuit board of an older one I've seen shows gpu components rearranged on a large custom board that also holds the cpu socket and everything else normally on a motherboard.

Anyway, as thingy suggested, Apple may once again be a suitable target of blame for component shortage. Any Vegas reaching the shelves may be the trickle that isn't earmarked for imac stockpiling for the launch in december.

So after all the argy bargy that it's not competitive enough for gaming it's being packed away in apple computers for professional use which is appropriate.

Could be why there's shortages, sounds more realistic that it really is due to professional use noting the good professional performance rather than miners doing something very stupid or hordes of people wanting one for a Freesync screen.