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AMD what you doing to fight off Alderlake?

Discussion in 'CPUs' started by subbytna, 3 Nov 2021.

  1. LePhuronn

    Soldato

    Joined: 26 Sep 2010

    Posts: 6,598

    Location: Stoke-on-Trent

    Is that actually true, though?

    What products do AMD have right now that require TSMC 5nm and are held up by Apple?
    What products do AMD have coming that require TSMC 3nm and will be held up by Apple?

    Now granted we're not on the inside, but there's always been a pattern than Apple uses TSMC's bleeding-edge node with AMD mass-producing on the node behind. Apple's new silicon moves to the next bleeding-edge node, AMD then takes Apple's place.

    Sure, 7nm production was very cramped and it's if AMD were ever unhappy with sharing the 7nm pie with Apple it'd be then, but that's a one-off, isn't it? When AMD move to 5nm production Apple will have moved to 3nm (or 4nm if the rumours are true about 3nm being delayed).

    And from a layperson's perspective, TSMC has many different nodes in the 7nm family, maybe AMD should've designed all of their stuff to use all the nodes, rather than get bottlenecked with 1 of them :p

    If anybody is annoyed by TSMC's preferential treatment it'd be Qualcomm.
     
  2. KompuKare

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 31 Dec 2010

    Posts: 1,276

    Location: Sussex

    Maybe instead we as consumers should be unhappy that the consoles are taking up such a large share of TSMC's 7nm wafers?

    Never mind Zen3, but RDNA2 is the first time in years where AMD's GPU have competed at the top yet due to lack of 7nm wafer supply it hardly matters.

    If supplies weren't a problem, then at MSRP I'd rather a 16GB 6800 than a 10GB 3080, or a 12GB 6700 than an 8GB 3060 Ti.
     
  3. LePhuronn

    Soldato

    Joined: 26 Sep 2010

    Posts: 6,598

    Location: Stoke-on-Trent

    But who cares about PC gaming? Nvidia sure don't, nor, it seems, do AMD. There's zero money in it. If PC gaming actually mattered to AMD they'd change the wafer allocation to get more into RDNA2.

    So why should AMD divert resources from more profitable avenues just to pander to a tiny niche market full of literal idiots that has zero profitability? Datacenter, compute, AI, and console development contracts are where the real profits are. The benchmarks of how Ryzen blisters through 7zip and RDNA2 winning by 3 fps in already imperceptibly-high 1080p frame rates is just marketing tosh.
     
  4. g67575

    Mobster

    Joined: 30 Jun 2019

    Posts: 3,213

    Yes, exactly. I wrote a post asking if AMD shifting some production to RDNA2 cards next year would be possible (or a good idea), but some people started saying shouting me down lol, cause they still wanted a console this Xmas, maybe as a present etc.
     
  5. KompuKare

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 31 Dec 2010

    Posts: 1,276

    Location: Sussex

    The console contracts seem very very one-sided... For MS and Sony. Aside from some paid-up-front R&D, hard to see what is actually in it for AMD. Or even AMD's costumers?
     
  6. SKILL

    Soldato

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 6,187

    Location: Melksham

    I think I was one of those that 'shouted you down', I don't particularly want a console...

    My argument to g67575 was, and still is, that there is decent supply of RDNA2 cards. Sure they're expensive but I'm not so much a case of supply/demand anymore, more that the market clearly can support those prices so why should the retailers, manufacturers or AMD sell for less? And flooding the market with supply just reduces margins.

    Maybe, certainly not overly lucrative but even today getting a some upfront cash for R&D (that also feeds into the CPU/GPU products) and a guaranteed income on extremely popular products isn't a *bad* deal...

    Of course those deals were also made years ago when AMD weren't as solid on standalone products as they are today, they make far more sense when they first entered the market as it wasn't great times for AMD in general.
     
  7. Purgatory

    Soldato

    Joined: 7 Dec 2010

    Posts: 5,650

    Location: Leeds

    https://www.techpowerup.com/289096/...ction-issues-in-wake-of-global-chip-shortages


    Report: DDR5 Already Facing Production Issues In Wake of Global Chip Shortages
    by Raevenlord Today, 18:27 Discuss (0 Comments)
    DDR5 may soon have reason to be an even more expensive early-adopter piece of tech than it currently is, according to electronic component supplier 12chip. While semiconductor manufacturers worldwide grapple with logistics and components shortages, the DRAM market has been left somewhat unscathed - up to now. DRAM fabrication - even DDR5 - isn't done on leading-edge nodes but on older, more mature ones (such as 14 nm). According to 12chip, manufacturers are having no problem in scaling their DRAM manufacturing on these older nodes to meet demand.

    However, DDR5 is being directly impacted by the current logistics issues due to lack of adequate Power Management Integrated Circuit (PMIC) chips - which DDR5 has integrated in the DIMM proper. Currently, lead times for PMIC orders are estimated at 35 weeks, placing additional strain on system assemblers and DRAM manufacturers - and forcing delays and bottlenecks throughout the supply chain. Additionally, the fact that PMIC chips for DDR5 are ten times as expensive as equivalent DDR4 power management solutions doesn't bode well for future price action on DDR. Should this situation continue, higher prices for DDR5 modules are to be expected due to a deteriorating supply/demand ratio - particularly relevant if you're thinking about putting together Intel's . As always, take this report with a grain of salt.
     
  8. Grim5

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 6 Feb 2019

    Posts: 9,230

    It's easy sales.

    Some pain up front for easy cash in later years - as time goes on making ps5 chips for amd becomes cheaper and easier, resulting in nice easy cash flow that doesn't require any RnD, freeing up cash to do RnD for other products.


    In the rest of the electronics world you must constantly do RnD and launch new products to maintain your revenue. But when it comes to consoles that's not the case, you can do RnD up front and then sit on top of a pile of money coming in for the next 7 years without having to do anymore work
     
  9. KompuKare

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 31 Dec 2010

    Posts: 1,276

    Location: Sussex

    Yes, I should have put the standard armchair CEO's disclaimer on my thoughts: "hindsight is wonderful thing (or not)".

    Still, if for example Sony - for argument's sake - were to forcefully insist that their contract entitles them to X million working PS5 chips nevermind the impact on AMD's other business then while that may work for them in shorter terms once the next console contacts are up for negotiation they may not get such a good deal next time.

    (The word, working, possibly being crucial if Sony actually did affect binning yields by changing the spec just before launch (which allegedly AMD must have agreed to), because then the only way to increase supply is to use far more wafers than the PS5's die size would suggest.)

    Anyway, armchair CEO or not I doubt any financial analyst is going to question Lisa too closely about leaving potential revenue (even Navi 21 should have far better margins than the consoles) on the table when AMD's y2y is up over 50%.
     
    Last edited: 18 Nov 2021
  10. jigger

    Capodecina

    Joined: 28 May 2007

    Posts: 16,759

    Intel are set to solve the GPU shortage anyway.
     
  11. LePhuronn

    Soldato

    Joined: 26 Sep 2010

    Posts: 6,598

    Location: Stoke-on-Trent

    With a small slice of TSMC's 6nm process? I don't think so.
     
  12. jigger

    Capodecina

    Joined: 28 May 2007

    Posts: 16,759

    180,000 wafers and counting.
     
  13. Grim5

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 6 Feb 2019

    Posts: 9,230


    This has been self evident since launch when alder lake launched with almost zero DDR5 memory to go with it. My local store's stock of DDR5 got sold out within a day of alder lake launching but they still have lots of CPUs in stock, next batch of DDR5 not coming till January
     
  14. tommoT.Striker

    Gangster

    Joined: 1 Jun 2019

    Posts: 393

  15. subbytna

    Capodecina

    Joined: 22 Oct 2008

    Posts: 10,467

    Location: Belfast

    Sickening. Wasting perfectly good CPU's, to heat the planet up more. Lovely :/
     
  16. Alan McFall

    Hitman

    Joined: 11 Jun 2021

    Posts: 678

    Location: Earth

    Incoming shortage of 5th series Ryzen boards, i'm sure AIB's wont be raising prices :rolleyes: I wonder if the scalpers are scrambling to their posts ?
     
  17. subbytna

    Capodecina

    Joined: 22 Oct 2008

    Posts: 10,467

    Location: Belfast

    Any jungle drums murmuring of a price drop to combat Alderlake?
     
  18. Toasty

    Mobster

    Joined: 21 Oct 2002

    Posts: 2,627

    Location: Sunderland

    Alderlake although good, isn't exactly flying off the shelves so don't think they will do anything.
     
  19. Grim5

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 6 Feb 2019

    Posts: 9,230

    Alder lake sales should improve next month with the cheap motherboards and entry level i5-12400 arriving
     
  20. Freddie1980

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 25 Sep 2009

    Posts: 7,769

    Location: Billericay, UK

    Yeah I don't understand all the talk about AMD needing to cut prices in the middle of a global chip shortage especially when their production costs are going up. Wishful thinking by certain members of the tech community me thinks.