AMD Zen 2 (Ryzen 3000) - *** NO COMPETITOR HINTING ***

[Participant]

I'm likely to be focusing on the 8 core at launch. I can't see there being any meaningful difference in performance vs. the 12 core for me as a gamer, media consumer, and casual PS user.

I'm assuming that benchmarks for current games when comparing the 8 and 12 cores, will be almost identical.

12 and 16 is presumably for the top tier enthusiast and HEDT market / niche usage.

 

[beany_bot]

As mentioned earlier - most people i know still haven't heard of Ryzen. Yet they can sound off the INTEL advertising chime and the mantra that goes with it - which shows that AMD still have a lot of ground to cover with everyday joes.

But everyday joes dont buy CPUs. They dont "choose" them.
They just buy tablets and laptops from PC world. They dont know, ask or care what CPU is in it.
AMD need to sell to DELL and the like, who well know what price/perf is. They dont need to convince the everyday joe.

 

[~>Dg<~]

just look at the pricing structures now and the new cpus will just fit in where the old ryzens were. they are just replacements. thats why the old ones have been being sold off, so the new replace them in there market priced place. x8 core needs and should be where the old 2700 sat. the 12x core i believe they will use as a we are better than a 9900k for the same price and be about 350.

 

[LePhuronn]

For one thing, its the first 7nm.

And what does that have to do with the price of rice in China? 7nm wafer costs mean nothing if chiplet yields are high (which apparently they are) and there's a high utilisation of said chiplets (which there is). We're not talking 14nm+++++++++++ monolithic dies any more.

 

[twistedheat]

just look at the pricing structures now and the new cpus will just fit in where the old ryzens were. they are just replacements. thats why the old ones have been being sold off, so the new replace them in there market priced place. x8 core needs and should be where the old 2700 sat. the 12x core i believe they will use as a we are better than a 9900k for the same price and be about 350.

Do you not think they'll move the product stacks down and split the difference?

Say 8c16t Zen 2 for 6c12t Zen+ prices, plus maybe say £30. So instead of £230 2600x we get a £260 3600x.

 

[LePhuronn]

just look at the pricing structures now and the new cpus will just fit in where the old ryzens were. they are just replacements. thats why the old ones have been being sold off, so the new replace them in there market priced place. x8 core needs and should be where the old 2700 sat. the 12x core i believe they will use as a we are better than a 9900k for the same price and be about 350.

Fully concur, and have said similar myself.

What if the tiers get a core bump though as the leaks suggest? 8c/16t becomes a Ryzen 5: does that mean the new Ryzen 5 costs the same as the old Ryzen 7, or do you get 8 new cores for the price of 6 old ones?

 

[Plec]

But everyday joes dont buy CPUs. They dont "choose" them.

Yeah, i know what you're saying, and appreciate the context - but my concern is only if they come in with prices higher than anticipated.

As, you say they choose them (systems) - but these "unfamiliar" systems will be sat right next to INTEL systems. How many times have you gone into Currys and overheard a boyfriend/husband bypass a superior build because they've spotted a bigger HDD - and lost out on better CPU or GPU? People are comfortable buying what they know and advertising/salesmen have shot themselves in the foot by being duplicitous dicks (or just plain ignorant of their product) in the past so they will have quite a task in persuading 'joes', as they will be rightly suspicious of the new sales mantra (if you get my meaning).

My main concern is that if AMD come in too strong that this will stall their momentum - whether it be through forums like this where i and others try and sell the virtues of Ryzen and its great all round performance for price or whether it's at the local PC shop - where consumers will overlook the word Ryzen and make a beeline straight for INTEL.

To clarify - this is only a concern if they come in swinging with their prices - we'll see i guess and hope...

 

[LePhuronn]

To clarify - this is only a concern if they come in swinging with their prices

I want AMD's prices to swing their fists, not their dicks.

 

[beany_bot]

I want AMD's prices to swing their fists, not their dicks.

Emm I'm just after some great hardware at good prices.

 

[Andyman82]

Six days... Only six days left...

 

[Sargatanas2511]

With how small the chiplets are, yields should be high and costs per die should be low so the pricing may well be less than people think.

 

[beany_bot]

Just think how the folk who paid gouged prices of £650 for OCUKs 9900k's feel right now...

 

[DragonQ]

Pretty sure the info we have so far points to 7nm being around twice as expensive per mm2 compared to 12nm. That is partially offset by the smaller dies and by the chiplet design producing higher yields than one would expect on a young node. However, I wouldn't expect their "cost per core" to drop, at least at launch, particularly given they need to make the I/O dies too.

 

[Jacky60]

To get this back on topic, what would be your guys point to 'bite' on Zen 2? Clocks/cores/price etc.

12 core, 5Ghz boost, equal or better IPC to 9900K £450 works for me. Seems I'm expecting to pay quite a bit more than others but I can't see why they would price it any lower. I had a free FX51 from AMD back when they were way ahead of Intel and that was silly money (not that I'd paid it)). Still on my 5960x at 4.5ghz/4.25cache so it's got to offer a serious upgrade.

 

[Sargatanas2511]

12 core, 5Ghz boost, equal or better IPC to 9900K £450 works for me. Seems I'm expecting to pay quite a bit more than others but I can't see why they would price it any lower. I had a free FX51 from AMD back when they were way ahead of Intel and that was silly money (not that I'd paid it)) Still on my 5960x at 4.5ghz/4.25cache so it's got to offer a serious upgrade.

I would agree it looks you are willing to pay more, but at that price I would consider it. I do hope for aggressive pricing but it would be an enormous upgrade from my 3.8Ghz 1700 even in terms of raw single threaded performance.

 

[Fire_fly]

Fully concur, and have said similar myself.

What if the tiers get a core bump though as the leaks suggest? 8c/16t becomes a Ryzen 5: does that mean the new Ryzen 5 costs the same as the old Ryzen 7, or do you get 8 new cores for the price of 6 old ones?

I would hope that they move everything down a pricing tier, so an 8 core becomes a Ryzen 5 in the $180 - 250 bracket. At the top end i think things will be a lot higher than people are expecting to be honest. If this mythical 5GHz 16 part does get released i can see it be over £600 and possibly more.

Looking back at the Zen 1xxx launch, with the 1800x where they halved the price of the equivalent Intel 8 core 6900k, if they did the the same this time the 16 core 9960x is about $1700 RRP.

 

[beany_bot]

Genuinely I think this is how it will go if I know anything of the past.

AMD keynote: Blah blah blah. Ryzen 3700x $350
OCUKFORUM: Hurray! Yay! wow I can't wait!
OCUK: Ryzen 3700x - £475
OCUKFORUM: WTF???!? Gouging much, Pound vs Dollar calculations a plenty on the forums etc etc
Gibbo: Ahh but shipping, VAT, "actually we are very competitive", "brexit". "We have stock". "we've sold 10 million Ryzen chips" etc etc

 

[Plec]

I want AMD's prices to swing their fists, not their dicks.

Well, with, Lisa Su, delivering the keynote, she'll be poorly equipped for the latter at least.

 

[StriderX]

Genuinely I think this is how it will go if I know anything of the past.

AMD keynote: Blah blah blah. Ryzen 3700x $350
OCUKFORUM: Hurray! Yay! wow I can't wait!
OCUK: Ryzen 3700x - £475
OCUKFORUM: WTF???!? Gouging much, Pound vs Dollar calculations a plenty on the forums etc etc
Gibbo: Ahh but shipping, VAT, "actually we are very competitive", "brexit". "We have stock". "we've sold 10 million Ryzen chips" etc etc

Surely shipping is basically an irrelevant cost , it’s not that much more from Taiwan to the USA vs the UK.

 

[beany_bot]

Surely shipping is basically an irrelevant cost , it’s not that much more from Taiwan to the USA vs the UK.

Watch this space...