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AMD Zen 3 (4000 Series), rumored 17% IPC gain.

Discussion in 'CPUs' started by AStaley, Dec 27, 2019.

  1. Doobedoo

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 24, 2016

    Posts: 2,739

    Location: South West

  2. Shac

    Gangster

    Joined: Oct 18, 2009

    Posts: 423

    Hmm..
     
  3. pc-guy

    Wise Guy

    Joined: May 29, 2005

    Posts: 1,386

    I don’t think it’s AMD setting these high prices. Yes they want people to buy their new chipset and their new CPU and make money but setting prices ridiculously high will stop that notion and thus they have to look to their last gen stuff to make money which may be smaller margins due to heavy discounting. And those products might be costly to produce as the fabrication line moves to produce newer products etc.

    Mobo manufacturers have had a complete gravy train with intel products now they are getting into their old habits with AMD as AMD seems to be monopolising things again. Until Intel is able to offer something better in their CPU line up (cost and performance) then mobo will simply hedge their bets.
     
  4. pastymuncher

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Jul 12, 2005

    Posts: 18,533

    Location: Aberlour, NE Scotland

    Going by this article over at Hexus, AMD is prolonging the 3000 series life and not releasing Ryzen 4000 series until CES in January at the earliest. Presumably this will also push back the 5000 series which is what I am looking at upgrading to when the socket changes. Personally I think that this is a big mistake and that they should continue to pull ahead of Intel as I reckon it would be the best way to get a bigger market share. This is probably going to upset a lot of people who were hoping to upgrade earlier.
     
  5. Steampunk

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 1, 2013

    Posts: 7,751

    Yeah, but they still want to maximise their return on investment to fill up the war chest. An extra quarter or two of money from 4000 means more money down the line for future development. It's not like Intel is giving them competition, so they are taking the extra cash.

    Plus the world has lost a couple of quarters of business to Covid-19.
     
  6. ~>Dg<~

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 1, 2006

    Posts: 32,396

    Location: Notts

    thats exactly why they will do it. if intel was on their heels it would go out as we thought but with no challenge might aswell just mop up with what they have now they release later and carry on mopping up until intel wake up and get something out.
     
  7. FoxEye

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 17, 2006

    Posts: 23,630

    Location: Cornwall

    Yeah I was waiting for this.

    AMD are masters at giving away any advantage they might have.

    They could release the 4000 series this year and really turn the screw on Intel, but instead they will delay it and try to milk the 3000 series some more.

    Achieving two things - making them look like Intel wannabees and evaporating good will; giving Intel more time to sell their chips whilst AMD's advantage is not so great as it will be when 4000 series launches.

    Good job AMD. I knew you could snatch a defeat even whilst having a massive tech advantage. It's what you do :)
     
  8. Journey

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 7,828

    Location: West Midlands

    Market share from where? Retail desktop users? Or do you mean OEM's where the actual volume is? If they don't release EPYC Milan in 2020 then I'll be more concerned for them, as the inroads they are making in the HPC/DC arena is really pushing forward.
     
  9. Gerard

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 32,522

    Location: Ireland


    We don't even know if that's the reason, remember when the 3xxx series launched a few of the cpu's were basically impossible to get for many months. They might be postponing launch to build up a decent inventory to distribute. If they were to launch with low stock people would whinge whilst retailers ratchet away at the price of any knocking around, and if they delay to build up stock so they're plentiful people also whinge, can't win really.
     
  10. pc-guy

    Wise Guy

    Joined: May 29, 2005

    Posts: 1,386

    I would only imagine it is the OEM that are saying the zen 2 parts are selling like hot cakes. Doesn’t make a lot of sense otherwise as you said.

    And to that effect I would imagine the OEM are referring to laptops or the 4000H and 4000U. people like dell, Lenovo, HP, Acer etc are still mainly using intel processors in their desktops.
     
  11. ~>Dg<~

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 1, 2006

    Posts: 32,396

    Location: Notts

    what these companies need to do is stop messing about customers with these deals and just apply these rebates at the stores you buy them from on buying completion. they would actually be worth doing then. instead of making customers spend many hrs sometimes without even getting the rewards promised. do that it would be a great system. the thing is it wouldnt even be hard to set up if big companies like ocuk who obviously deal with the companies doing the rebates just said look we will minus the rebate on buying. its a win win for both sides if it was done this way.

    the only real reason its done how it is is obvious its because many will buy then just give up trying to claim the rebate or fail to remember to do it. then they get the sale and dont have to pay it out. someone take the lead do the deals and get this at shop level instantly took off the total cost. then watch your sales instantly grow.
     
  12. 0h_no_not_again

    Gangster

    Joined: Jun 29, 2016

    Posts: 190

    What are you on about. AMD are making significant step improvements year on year. The 3000 series was released less than a year ago, and 4000 series is looking like ~20% IPC uplift after ~ 18 months.

    We don't know the 4000 series release date has slipped. We don't know how 7nm EUV is getting on. We don't know what TSMCs production capacity is.

    Meanwhile, the XT series is providing a minor improvement, circa Skylake -> Kabylake, and the rest of the X family's prices have been falling for a while. How terrible, constantly falling prices of competitive products.

    How is any of this squandering their lead? How is making significant IPC gains on a ~18 month cycle making them "Intel wannabees".

    Do you really believe that anyone can just design a faster processor and release it in under a year? The verification & validation cycle alone for a processor is > 12 months...
     
  13. Armageus

    Don

    Joined: May 19, 2012

    Posts: 11,141

    Location: Spalding, Lincolnshire

    And if they do, the same people complain that the product is rushed and drivers, patches and bios updates aren't available at launch. AMD can't win :D
     
  14. FoxEye

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 17, 2006

    Posts: 23,630

    Location: Cornwall

    The info (if you believe it or not) was that they could have released this year but have *chosen* not to, for "competitive reasons".

    If that is true, none of what you say is at all relevant. Drip feeding the market is an Intel move. The Zen2 refresh is such a minor improvement it's comparable to what Intel have been doing for the past n years.

    Don't worry tho, I know how AMD mad this forum is. AMD will always be the white knight even when behaving like Intel :p It's just how this forum is.
     
  15. Bottle

    Associate

    Joined: Dec 6, 2004

    Posts: 99

  16. alec

    Hitman

    Joined: Dec 11, 2016

    Posts: 645

    Its just saying what Lisa said. That Zen 3 will be announced this year

    Previous experience says it will be server parts first.
    Zen2 was talked about (with performance preview) at Computex more than HALF A YEAR before desktop CPU release. But we don't have any leaks or teases about Zen3 yet.
    If anything, January 2021 is looking a bit optimistic
     
  17. jigger

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 28, 2007

    Posts: 12,636

    He is just salty about AMD hurting Nvidia and Intel pushing them out of the mobile market.
     
  18. Journey

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 7,828

    Location: West Midlands

    The only thing AMD need to do is ensure they get the APU's out with Zen2 cores in them, 6 and 8 cores models are needed desperately to help the large OEM's build models along side the Intel ones. The lack of IGP and being limited to low end i3/i5 level CPU's isn't helping them at all, most of the system shipped in a desktop style form factor don't have discrete graphics for obvious reasons, but the performance of the 3200G/3400G is lacking on the CPU side sadly, which makes them unappealing. Ryzen 4xxx with Zen3 on desktop is almost irrelevant to the overall importance of their portfolio, and you only need to look at the new mobile chips to see that.
     
  19. Chuk_Chuk

    Wise Guy

    Joined: May 12, 2014

    Posts: 1,319

    Lisa su said "launched this year" not "announced this year".

    https://seekingalpha.com/article/43...-results-earnings-call-transcript?part=single
     
  20. alec

    Hitman

    Joined: Dec 11, 2016

    Posts: 645

    I used "announce" to mean sort of "paper launch". Launching Zen 3 as server part or just on paper has same outcome for us.