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Another AR 15 killing in the US

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by DXP55, Nov 4, 2019.

  1. Zatoichi.uK

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 13, 2005

    Posts: 2,641

    Why would you need range for a home invasion?
     
  2. Energize

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 12, 2004

    Posts: 27,823

    This target had took up position in a ditch 200ft away. Even in close quarters I would take a precision weapon over a shotgun any day.

    Well if you read the article you would see that the target was a significant distance away when they were hit, possibly taking up a firing position.

    I would not want to use something as imprecise as a shotgun in a home invasion as you risk collateral damage.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
  3. Kutter

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 22, 2009

    Posts: 4,303

    Location: Georgia, USA

    Problem with an AR is the round goes through the wall into your neighbours house.
     
  4. Angilion

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Dec 5, 2003

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    Location: Just to the left of my PC

    Which raises the question of whether killing someone in a ditch 200 feet away is defence. It might be in some circumstances, but it is a valid question.

    You also risk collateral damage by using a weapon that can easily shoot through the internal walls of a building and kill people in other rooms. Or through windows, doors, some types of exterior wall or any other less sturdy parts of a building and kill people in other buildings. It happens relatively often in the USA. There is such a thing as too much penetration.
     
  5. Energize

    Caporegime

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    Posts: 27,823

    I agree, but given the circumstances, it seems pretty valid.

    Yeah, but I think a shotgun on balance seems like the riskier option.
     
  6. Terminal_Boy

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 13, 2013

    Posts: 7,141

    Location: La France

    M193 won’t, M855 could well do.
     
  7. Roar87

    Soldato

    Joined: May 10, 2012

    Posts: 5,632

    Location: Leeds

    Taking on people at 200 yards through walls and body armour? Are they using a .50 cal?
     
  8. Zatoichi.uK

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 13, 2005

    Posts: 2,641

    I'm not sure shooting someone as they are running away is a good reason to use a long range weapon for home protection.
     
  9. Terminal_Boy

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 13, 2013

    Posts: 7,141

    Location: La France

    Pump action shotgun loaded with birdshot is probably the lowest risk lethal weapon for Yank homes/apartments which feature plasterboard internal walls and thin external cladding.

    The downsides to a 12 gauge pump action are that you have a very limited effective range and the considerable recoil makes it difficult and unpleasant to use for people with lighter frames and lower upper body strength. That’s real problem as you need plenty of practice to become proficient and safe with any firearm.

    AR 15s (other small calibre military style semi-automatic carbines are available) are a lot easier to shoot in terms of low recoil and near-instant follow up shots. Depending on the ammunition used, they can seriously over-penetrate, going through walls, cars and other people that you didn’t want shot.
     
  10. Energize

    Caporegime

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    Posts: 27,823

    Running away and fleeing are two different things, in this case we don't know what the persons actual intentions were, but it's easy to imagine many other scenarios where the range would be useful.

    But as Terminal Boy has mentioned there are more important reasons such as the recoil, you want a weapon that is as easy to use as possible, a glock would be perfect for home defence really, but an assault rifle is more effective than a shotgun.
     
  11. Minstadave

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 8, 2004

    Posts: 24,920

    Location: Rutland

    5.56 is good for that distance, will go through dry wall merrily and body armour (soft armour anyway). That's pretty much what it was designed for.

    But its America so you can buy a .50 cal rifle too if you like, because why not?
     
  12. Minstadave

    Capodecina

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    Posts: 24,920

    Location: Rutland

    9mm penetrates dry wall more than 5.56, not that perfect really if you like your neighbours.
     
  13. Zatoichi.uK

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 13, 2005

    Posts: 2,641

    I'd agree in general. I've played enough airsoft to know assault rifles are not a good option for close quarters though. Shotguns are much the same depending on length. Semi handgun in general would be my choice for the home. Thankfully it's something I dont have to contend with in the UK. Well I hope...
     
  14. Angilion

    Man of Honour

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    Location: Just to the left of my PC

    Rather oddly, there are no calibre limits in the UK. It's possible to have a licence in the UK for a fully functional main battle tank gun which will shoot through a lot more than body armour a couple of miles away.
     
  15. Energize

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 12, 2004

    Posts: 27,823

    Well it's a balance between cost, rate of fire, penetration, recoil, capacity and reload speed. In general American and UK homes are not separated by plasterboard...
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019