Any comeback from a private sale?

Jamesyboyjim

Jamesyboyjim

Jamesyboyjim

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Hi all, my mate recently purchased a 1 series privately that he said seemed ok, drove it for two weeks then put it in for a service, they took a look at the car, noticed the timing chain had previously snapped, damaged a piston and cylinder and the chain had been bodgejob replaced with the damage untouched.

Its pretty obvious now that this is the reason the car was sold but the previous owner of course says he knew nothing about it. Is there anything legal that can be done? He paid 4k for it and its going to cost at least that getting it fixed. He's obviously gutted.

A quick Google suggests the car must match the sellers description and be road worthy. I suspect not much that can be done legally, perhaps a small claims court? I just feel so bad for him I wanted to see if I could gather any advise. Thanks guys.
 
You have to prove also the seller knew about it.

If you can and it wasn't declared then it is possible. However, if it has been repaired and the car is roadworthy, then it is irrelevant.
 
Jamesyboyjim said:
Extremely difficult then. :(

He may have an invoice for the chain replacement, perhaps if he can track down who changed it, they may be willing to provide a statement saying the seller knew of the damage for a few quid...
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You could only prove someone had replaced it, you couldn't prove that they didn't rip off the seller and either say they'd also sorted the damage or just not mentioned it.
 
If the piston and cylinder are damaged you'd know about it, expect big clouds of blue smoke from blow by and a terrible running engine. The only way the timing chain would damage the piston and cylinder would be the valve breaking off and bouncing around... which would mean the engine would be mostly useless and wouldn't run well (if they replaced the valve).

Odd!
 
Rroff said:
Depends what the damage is - it might get worse and/or allow corrosion in, etc. or it might be purely cosmetic.
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Not in that sense – in the sense that the timing chain is at the back of the engine and not visible (it's primarily shielded by the timing cover). Consequently, unless they've pulled the rocker cover off and run the whole chain around (for a service?) it seems unlikely that they've looked at it.

Similarly, I'm not sure how it could be bodged; it'll have been replaced with a new one if it's been done previously (I'm assuming it's an N47-engined 1 Series, so it probably has snapped previously).

Likewise, unless it's smoking or making horrible noises, then there will be no way for them to ascertain that it's suffered piston damage (and it wouldn't be the first port of call, at any rate) – unless they've put a borescope down each chamber... but why do that for a service?

Just sounds a little odd.
 
Lashout_UK said:
Not in that sense – in the sense that the timing chain is at the back of the engine and not visible (it's primarily shielded by the timing cover). Consequently, unless they've pulled the rocker cover off and run the whole chain around (for a service?) it seems unlikely that they've looked at it.

Similarly, I'm not sure how it could be bodged; it'll have been replaced with a new one if it's been done previously (I'm assuming it's an N47-engined 1 Series, so it probably has snapped previously).

Likewise, unless it's smoking or making horrible noises, then there will be no way for them to ascertain that it's suffered piston damage (and it wouldn't be the first port of call, at any rate) – unless they've put a borescope down each chamber... but why do that for a service?

Just sounds a little odd.
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It'd also be odd to lie and give a £4000 bill as well though as they must know they'd get found out if lying. You definitely get a second opinion before you fork that out (or just sell the car).
 
Rubbish diagnosis, no way would an interference engine run anywhere normal by just bodging a cam chain on. You would notice it straight away during a test drive for starters, garages would have to charge a grand or 2 for a service if they were going to strip heads down as part of an oil service.

I fear the garage is trying it on.
 
"Hi, can u service this car I just bought?"

"Oh dear. Looks like a new engine is needed. £4,000 please."

Surely if this car had major engine damage, he'd have noticed on the test drive? Unless your mate isn't a car guy.
 
Surely even a non-car person would notice something was wrong if it's bad enough to be noticed by the guys servicing it, they'll have only needed to shunt around the yard and change a few easily accessed parts surely?
 
I’d tell your mate to get a second opinion.

A mate had an early f10 520d that snapped its chain @ 241k Miles (a good innings all things considered) whilst the car still drove afterwards - he had the chain replaced on the advice it’s all he needed to get done - it sounded like a bag of spanner’s in a washing machine and spewed out clouds of blue smoke.

After a long wrangle with the garage that changed the chain the car was eventually sold as a spares or repair for £2k.

Whilst it’s possible the same happened with your mates car if it drove like this one did after the new chain then frankly he deserves all he gets for buying it in the first place, n47’s with bent valves should fool nobody on a test drive!

Assuming your mates car drove ok which given he took it for a service then it surely must have otherwise it would have been taken for repair, then I’d suggest the garage are trying it on big time.

I’d advise a trip to a well regarded specialist to have it serviced (assuming the garage who found the “fault” didn’t service it but just advised of the “problem”) and have the chain replaced anyway and then enjoy what I suspect is an otherwise healthy car with peace of mind that the weak spot has been addressed.
 
I guess there is some information we don't know here such as whether he put it in for a service because it was running poorly. Not everyone knows about cars and can sometimes be fobbed off by the seller with "It just needs a service mate, I'll knock off £200 to get it done"

I guess it is possible that it had the chain replaced but the owner took a risk on there being no damage. Then they found it wasnt quite right and decided to sell it on rather than fix it a second time. But if that were the case I would be very surprised if there no no signs of it on the test drive. It would probably have run very roughly and most likely would have thrown out smoke.

I think this scenario is unlikely but just about possible. So why did he have it serviced so quickly after buying it? Were there any symptoms when he test drove it? Why did the garage do further investigation into it as part of the service (I would expect several fault codes would have shown up)?

However he still has to prove the seller knew about it.
 
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