Anyone been on the ketogenic diet long term?

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NVP

Soldato
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If you want to read further there are studies out there identifying a sugar->dopamine link to the addiction.
 
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If you want to read further there are studies out there identifying a sugar->dopamine link to the addiction.

And that is one of the key aspects, addiction for the most part is chasing that good-feel dopamine hit, and many things can trigger it.

From a great workout at the gym, to winning an online game match, to a five-knuckle-shuffle, these are all things that can become an addiction.

But each person is different, so developing addiction in the above instances will vary across a random population sample.

The dopamine hit that sugar gives? That impacts more people in general, as it is linked to instinctual metabolic responses, "Ug ug, quick-release-energy-good".

The advances in food availability have vastly outstripped our ability to evolve and adapt how our brains respond to things, so we still have somewhat primal responses to food, which makes willpower tricky for many people.

As for people getting twitchy without sugar, well one of the first contrasts I noticed when moving to the UK from SA was how an after-dinner pudding/dessert is like a religion over here (almost as much as a cuppa). I have heard people literally say "It doesn't feel right not having pudding after a meal" which is cusping on addiction-speak to me. :p
 
Soldato
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Not keto but do try to limit carbs as I feel bloated when I have too much.

I do follow IF (16:8 daily, almost without question) and gluten free (helps with Ulcerative Colitis).

On the subject of diet there's a useful website here, you can punch in a few details and it tells you calorie goals for various reasons (bulking, maintaining, losing, etc.)

https://www.eatthismuch.com/
 
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It's likely going to be your diet mostly, depending on what you're eating plant based food is often lower calorie (there are some exceptions, especially if oil is involved). Depending on what you're doing cardio wise, one hour on the treadmill could only be burning 300 calories. So 4 hours a week would only be burning 1200kcals. It takes roughly a deficit of 3500kcal to lose a pound so the exercise alone is minimal (it does help increase the size of the deficit though!). Most treadmills you can put in your weight and it'll tell you the calories you've burned, it's not the most accurate but provided you use the same brand/type of treadmill it's consistent so is useful for monitoring and making changes. :)

Cardio obviously has other health benefits too though so don't think I'm saying you're wasting your time!

Cycling to work approx 15 miles, according to my heart rate monitor I'm burning around 900 calories for a round trip. Did a 30 mile ride Saturday that was around 3200 calories.
 
Soldato
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Cycling to work approx 15 miles, according to my heart rate monitor I'm burning around 900 calories for a round trip. Did a 30 mile ride Saturday that was around 3200 calories.

I wouldn't trust those figures at all...

There is no way you burned 3000 calories in 30 miles.... How did you convert from your Heart rate to calories?

I burned 2800 calories on a 75 mile, 8000ft day of cycling, in 30 degree heat.....So no way you burned 3200 calories in 30 miles.
 
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I'll admit addiction is something I'd like to educate myself on more but you sort of made my point there. When it comes to food most people wouldn't eat it if it wasn't there. If sugar containing food suddenly disappeared people wouldn't start panicking (though they wouldn't be impressed), it's mostly down to lack of willpower when we're surrounded by all the sweet stuff.

It's worth pointing out, that the addiction might not simply be the result of sugar and sugar alone. I think it's the combination of large amounts of added sugar and fat added to food at the same time, to make it 'hyper palatable' because it's extremely rare to find food, that contains large amount of sugar and fat in nature, it's almost always processed food.

On top of that, you have $Billions spent, on engineering food which is designed to cause as much pleasure as possible, I'd use Pringles as an example. Every last aspect of that product, from the moment you pop the lid, to the first crunch, the intense flavour on your tongue, the crunch, to the way it breaks down inside your mouth (mouthfeel) followed by the "glob" it forms as it goes down your throat, every single stage of that has been designed on purpose to be as pleasurable as possible.

So for me, I don't think the problem is just sugar and sugar alone - it's the overall composition of junk food, along with it's ingredients and design, which can drive addictive behaviour.
 
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Cycling to work approx 15 miles, according to my heart rate monitor I'm burning around 900 calories for a round trip. Did a 30 mile ride Saturday that was around 3200 calories.

I wouldn't trust those figures at all...

There is no way you burned 3000 calories in 30 miles.... How did you convert from your Heart rate to calories?

I burned 2800 calories on a 75 mile, 8000ft day of cycling, in 30 degree heat.....So no way you burned 3200 calories in 30 miles.

As Booyaka said I wouldn't rely on those numbers being accurate (so don't go thinking I've burned 3000 calories so I can eat 3000 calories of pizza). The HR numbers may help monitor cardiovascular improvement though providing it's consistent day to day, in theory your HR should get lower over time as the ride gets easier (unless you increase effort).
 
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So for me, I don't think the problem is just sugar and sugar alone - it's the overall composition of junk food, along with it's ingredients and design, which can drive addictive behaviour.

I'd add caffeine to that list, a lot of sugar can be added to coffee in the way of syrups (and fat with milk and cream) and there's also caffeine in normal fizzy drinks. Lots of people having their daily dose of Starbucks!
 
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I'd add caffeine to that list, a lot of sugar can be added to coffee in the way of syrups (and fat with milk and cream) and there's also caffeine in normal fizzy drinks. Lots of people having their daily dose of Starbucks!

Yeah I'd agree, over here (US) I see people gulping down gigantic cups of Starbucks, but it's essentially just 500-600 calories of sugar/fat and caffeine - they're just drinking all of that, and it provides absolutely zero sustenance, it seems like a cup of regular normal coffee is a thing of the past - it's more like a milkshake.
 
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I wouldn't trust those figures at all...

There is no way you burned 3000 calories in 30 miles.... How did you convert from your Heart rate to calories?

I burned 2800 calories on a 75 mile, 8000ft day of cycling, in 30 degree heat.....So no way you burned 3200 calories in 30 miles.

My bike computer does it all, based on my weight, heart rate, cycling cadence etc
 
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My bike computer does it all, based on my weight, heart rate, cycling cadence etc

yes - but the numbers are not accurate....You did not burn 3200 calories in a 30 mile cycle....Don't kid yourself.

Tour de france pro riders burn around 5000 calories per stage - they are doing 150-200 miles a day. Not 30 miles and 3200 calories.
 
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Maybe so but they aren't 110kg doing 1000m of elevation on a 60lb bike with 2.8" chunky tyres. I know most of them aren't accurate though, my calorie goal on the day was something like 5200, I normally eat 2000, on that day I still had 2000 left to go but didn't feel like eating that much.
 
Caporegime
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"Moderation will never do and the extreme of Keto works best"

That's a pretty clear statement you've made. If I said to people in a general conversation, Paleo is best for achieving healthy eating habits etc I wouldn't be surprised if I was then asked WHY. What's my source? Personal experience? Online research?

Keto wouldn't work best for me because it's including dairy, something I prefer to avoid.

Exactly, it is an interesting diet and it isn't something that someone has just pulled out of their arse like say "hey guys only eat porridge" or "hey guys just do the only-eat-green-soup diet" but people advocating it ought to not fall into the trap of just making **** up and asking questions about this stuff is both valid and ought to be encouraged - in fact any big fans of it ought to be doing that themselves.

My post was about weak willed people, dowies question was regarding the general diets.

The "why" is already in my post.

My knowledge is from common sense, cut out the addictive component and you then have better control.

No my question was just in reply to your post. There are a couple of potential issues I could think of right away, ignoring any potential nutritional downsides - a very restrictive diet can be hard to follow for some people also some people experience side effects from these sorts of diets and that can cause them to give them up. There was also a fad for the Atkins diet a decade or so ago and the paleo diet a few years ago. I don't think that simply making some argument about sugar means you can really claim that keto works best for weak willed people on that basis, cutting out sugar isn't unique to this diet. It might well turn out to be the best diet for people who are weak willed but in order to know that you'd well... need to actually have something to back it up. It might well be the case that it is a diet that works well and is sustainable for some people but others give it up quickly etc.. Getting offended because people have asked a question or responding with google it.. etc.. is just unhelpful and silly.

@dowie and anybody else who cares. This is a study on the keto diet and explains why it can be quite sustainable for some people: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=18175736 . Essentially cutting out/eating low carbs means people end up eating more protein and fat, both of which are highly satiating so leads to a lot of people eating less calories on average. Less calories eaten, good chance they're in a deficit and therefore lose weight.

Thanks, that's useful - that does echo what some others have said and does seem to indicate why this diet could be helpful for some once they've got going on it. :)
 
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I’m well annoyed with all you lot on keto saying you feel great, etc. I’ve just finished my two week plan of 20g or under of carbs and still feel like crap. I don’t know what I’m doing wrong (maybe not getting enough salt now I’ve given up my daily ready meals).
 
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yes - but the numbers are not accurate....You did not burn 3200 calories in a 30 mile cycle....Don't kid yourself.

Tour de france pro riders burn around 5000 calories per stage - they are doing 150-200 miles a day. Not 30 miles and 3200 calories.

Every time I did a marathon a common question was "How much weight did you lose?" - I probably put weight on because I has 4 Mars Bars on the way round.
 
Soldato
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I’m well annoyed with all you lot on keto saying you feel great, etc. I’ve just finished my two week plan of 20g or under of carbs and still feel like crap. I don’t know what I’m doing wrong (maybe not getting enough salt now I’ve given up my daily ready meals).

it takes time to adjust , how many calories are you eating each day? What foods are you eating? Are you drinking enough water? How active are you?

When I’ve done keto /low carb I find the first week tough then I’m ok the 2nd week, 3rd week I feel good. I also eat carbs on one day after the 3 weeks is up and have something I really enjoy such as a cake or dessert, I don’t over do it though, then I jump right back into my diet, after that I eat carbs once every fortnight.
 
Soldato
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I’m well annoyed with all you lot on keto saying you feel great, etc. I’ve just finished my two week plan of 20g or under of carbs and still feel like crap. I don’t know what I’m doing wrong (maybe not getting enough salt now I’ve given up my daily ready meals).

Took a few weeks for me to adjust when I started keto, "ketoflu" is a real thing. Make sure you getting enough minerals, I actually found a glass of water with a pinch of salt helped.
 
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