Apple becomes most valuable firm of all time

mrochester · 22 Aug 2012 at 08:16

Basher said:
Such as ... ?

I don't know, you tell me! I was just putting it out there as a potential reason why Apple can't use MicroUSB. There are all sorts of docking solutions where control of the connected device can be devolved to another system (im thinking of cars where the connected device can be controlled via the in car controls etc). I've no idea whether that's possible over MicroUSB.

SteveOBHave · 22 Aug 2012 at 08:21

OhEsEcks said:
Read the schematics and stop being stupid.

Easy tiger - the functionality that is in the connector is easily capable of being processed through a micro USB bus and more than capable of being dealt with by the devices onboard processing. They continue to use unique connectors because it gives them control and in income stream. The schematics tell you what the 30pin connector does, not why it is there.

OhEsEcks · 22 Aug 2012 at 08:23

SteveOBHave said:
Easy tiger - the functionality that is in the connector is easily capable of being processed through a micro USB bus and more than capable of being dealt with by the devices onboard processing. They continue to use unique connectors because it gives them control and in income stream.

Oh really? Would you like to provide schematics showing so? Otherwise I think you're blowing smoke out your ass.

SteveOBHave · 22 Aug 2012 at 08:30

OhEsEcks said:
Oh really? Would you like to provide schematics showing so? Otherwise I think you're blowing smoke out your ass.

a) please stop being deliberately obtuse
b) please stop being deliberately obtuse

Kindly tell me what functionality that is in the proprietary connector that exceeds the USB2/3 bus throughput? HD video playback? Data transfer? Charging? Schematics do not show anything else than what the cables do - it does not tell you that it is a legitimate reason why it's used as an alternative.

OhEsEcks · 22 Aug 2012 at 08:34

So you don't have the schematics to a micro USB connector that provides all the functionality that the 30 pin does. You were the one making the claim, you provide the evidence. That's how it works. Clearly you have much superior knowledge about this than I do so it shouldn't be a problem for you to show it.

mrochester · 22 Aug 2012 at 08:38

SteveOBHave said:
a) please stop being deliberately obtuse
b) please stop being deliberately obtuse

Kindly tell me what functionality that is in the proprietary connector that exceeds the USB2/3 bus throughput? HD video playback? Data transfer? Charging? Schematics do not show anything else than what the cables do - it does not tell you that it is a legitimate reason why it's used as an alternative.

Can MicroUSB provide the sort of in car integration and functionality that the dock connector does?

Robbo · 22 Aug 2012 at 08:39

I haven't seen steering wheel/car functionality controls that work with MicroUSB, only the specific Apple connector. That could have just been how the car system was programmed though, but possibly not.

MicroUSB let you see the files, but it was limited beyond that.

SteveOBHave · 22 Aug 2012 at 08:39

SCHEMATICS DO NOT TELL YOU ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT THE WIRES DO!!!

But just to keep you happy - here is a Micro USB Schematic - make of it what you will

It's like talking to a 3 year old. If the rest of the world is capable of getting all the functionality that ipods and ipads get from micro USB then why can't Apple?

SteveOBHave · 22 Aug 2012 at 08:43

mrochester said:
Can MicroUSB provide the sort of in car integration and functionality that the dock connector does?

Typically they don't need to because on other devices you just use Bluetooth. But yeah it is possible to control your device through USB.

mrochester · 22 Aug 2012 at 08:49

SteveOBHave said:
Typically they don't need to because on other devices you just use Bluetooth. But yeah it is possible to control your device through USB.

Doesn't that mean you're going to need another dock and connector to keep the device charged?

OhEsEcks · 22 Aug 2012 at 08:53

SteveOBHave said:
SCHEMATICS DO NOT TELL YOU ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT THE WIRES DO!!!

It's like talking to a 3 year old. If the rest of the world is capable of getting all the functionality that ipods and ipads get from micro USB then why can't Apple?

Sorry I should have been clear and said pin out schematics. And the rest of the world isn't capable of getting all the functionality that ipods and ipads and iphones get from the 30 pin dock connector. Saying so is a bare faced lie. 5 pin micro USB is capable of nothing but USB data transfer and power.

8 pins on the 30 pin dock connector alone are used for maintaining Firewire connectivity (you know because they're always chopping and changing their cable designs forcing you to upgrade :rolleyes:

) Using 30 pins also negates the need for drivers. Traditional 4/5 pin USB requires drivers on the client machine that it's being plugged into. Only two pins on the 30 dock do USB data transfer. 3 pins have very specific video out. 11 pins that can be reclaimed and low and behold the new dock connector will be 19 pin.

So plugging in a device to a 3rd party dock like a stereo, the device can be set to only look for signals coming from distinct pins. The same for a 3rd party dock looking for video. This benefits 3rd party addon makers because it keeps the cost of development down for them not requiring to make something that needs to process and translate the incoming signal with drivers.

Firestar_3x · 22 Aug 2012 at 08:56

mrochester said:
Can MicroUSB provide the sort of in car integration and functionality that the dock connector does?

Nope, and that’s one of the MAJOR plus points about going down the iPod / iPhone route, no other mp3 player or phone has the same sort of excellent in car integration.

mrochester · 22 Aug 2012 at 08:59

Firestar_3x said:
Nope, and that’s one of the MAJOR plus points about going down the iPod / iPhone route, no other mp3 player or phone has the same sort of excellent in car integration.

If MicroUSB can do everything the dock connector does, then why is that the case? (And that question is directed towards the people who are wondering why Apple don't just use a MicroUSB connector)

OhEsEcks · 22 Aug 2012 at 08:59

Firestar_3x said:
Nope, and that’s one of the MAJOR plus points about going down the iPod / iPhone route, no other mp3 player or phone has the same sort of excellent in car integration.

Plus Apple makes a ton licensing it. Nearly 10 years old and still going strong.

Efour · 22 Aug 2012 at 09:11

OhEsEcks said:
Plus Apple makes a ton licensing it. Nearly 10 years old and still going strong.

thats the only real reason they use it... More money potential for being bespoke.

Its not like all the other boring Mundane devices.... its special !

StriderX · 22 Aug 2012 at 09:11

Efour2 said:
thats the only real reason they use it... More money potential for being bespoke.

Its not like all the other boring Mundane devices.... its speshul !

Fixed.

Firestar_3x · 22 Aug 2012 at 09:12

Efour2 said:
thats the only real reason they use it... More money potential for being bespoke.

Its not like all the other boring Mundane devices.... its special !

It's special because unlike 90% of the other incar solutions, it actually works and works VERY well

deuse · 22 Aug 2012 at 09:13

Firestar_3x said:
Nope, and that’s one of the MAJOR plus points about going down the iPod / iPhone route, no other mp3 player or phone has the same sort of excellent in car integration.

A friend of mine has his old Galaxy S2 connected to his car system via HDMI works great.
Even my Android G300 works well using blue tooth on the same system.

Firestar_3x · 22 Aug 2012 at 09:20

What actual functionality does it give you? Can you control the phone via the cars touch screen or do you need to use the phone to change tracks etc.

I've been down the whole USB / Bluetooth / other phones route, nothing compares to connecting an iPod chucking it into your glove box and enjoying full control over the device including cover flow and stuff like that.

iPod in car intergration has become an industry standard and rightfully so.

Richie · 22 Aug 2012 at 09:21

Don't car kits all use Bluetooth now anyway? :confused:

Sure, you may still need a connector for power to the phone but given Bluetooth is a standard, it would mean that you could use any BT phone without the need for special cables which only one set of devices from one manufacturer can use i.e. all BT phones would work.

Now people will go on about the stereo integration - Would it not be currently possible to have the phone streaming music over BT to the car unit which will cut out when making a phonecall/getting satnav directions etc? I know it does this for the 3.5mm aux out already.

Also, Bluetooth controls should allow you to control the device for skipping tracks, volume etc....

This may sound like another swipe at Apple but given that every other manufacturer is using the micro-usb standard and FULL BT compatibility, it would be more prudent for Apple to change.... IMO